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Ex-CIA Officer Says Torture Tactics Used

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By JOBY WARRICK and DAN EGGEN, The Washington Post

Published: December 12, 2007

WASHINGTON - A former CIA officer who participated in the capture and questioning of the first al-Qaida terrorist suspect to be waterboarded said the harsh technique provided an intelligence breakthrough that "probably saved lives," but he now regards the tactic as torture.

Abu Zubaydah, the first high-ranking al-Qaida member captured after the Sept. 11 attacks, broke in less than a minute after he was subjected to the technique and began providing interrogators with information that led to the disruption of several planned attacks, said John Kiriakou, who served as a CIA interrogator in Pakistan.
Abu Zubaydah was one of two detainees whose interrogation was captured in video recordings the CIA later destroyed. The recent disclosure of the tapes' destruction ignited a furor on Capitol Hill and allegations that the agency tried to hide evidence of illegal torture.

"It was like flipping a switch," said Kiriakou, the first former CIA employee directly involved in the questioning of "high-value" al-Qaida detainees to speak publicly.

Kiriakou said he did not witness Abu Zubaydah's waterboarding, but was part of the interrogation team that questioned him in a hospital in Pakistan for weeks after his capture in that country in the spring of 2002.

He described Abu Zubaydah as ideologically zealous, defiant and uncooperative until the day in mid-summer when his captors strapped him to a board, wrapped his nose and mouth in cellophane and forced water into his throat in a technique that simulates drowning.

The waterboarding lasted about 35 seconds before Abu Zubaydah broke down, according to Kiriakou, who said he was given a detailed description of the incident by fellow team members. The next day, Abu Zubaydah told his captors he would tell them whatever they wanted, Kiriakou said.

"He said that Allah had come to him in his cell and told him to cooperate, because it would make things easier for his brothers," Kiriakou said.

Interrogation Tapes Destroyed

Kiriakou's remarks came a day before top CIA officials appeared before a closed congressional hearing Tuesday to account for the decision to destroy recordings of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and another senior captive, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.

CIA Director Michael Hayden told the Senate intelligence committee in a closed hearing that he was unable to answer key questions about the destruction of interrogation videotapes because the decisions were made before he worked at the CIA.

Hayden said after the hearing he had "a chance to lay out the narrative, the history of why the tapes were destroyed."

But because the tapes were made in 2002 under then-CIA Director George Tenet, and were destroyed in 2005 under another director, former Rep. Porter Goss, Hayden said he is unable to answer all the committee's questions.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., the intelligence panel's chairman, said the hearing was "useful and not yet complete" because of Hayden's inability to supply crucial information, including who authorized the destruction of videotapes and why lawmakers were not told about it sooner, or at all.

The recordings were destroyed despite orders from judges that required the government to preserve records related to interrogation programs. The lawsuits were filed by captives at Guantanamo Bay military prison who were contesting their detentions.

U.S. intelligence officials confirmed Kiriakou was a CIA employee involved in the capture and questioning of Abu Zubaydah. Kiriakou, a 14-year veteran of the CIA who worked in both the analysis and operations divisions, left the agency in 2004 and works as a consultant for a private Washington-based firm.

Aggression Escalated

After the hospital interviews bore no fruit, Abu Zubaydah was flown to a secret CIA prison, where interrogation duties fell to a team trained in aggressive tactics, including waterboarding. Shortly before the transfer, Kiriakou said he left Pakistan for Washington, where he said he continued to monitor the interrogation through classified cables and private communications with colleagues.

Kiriakou said he did not know the interrogations were videotaped, although there often were closed-circuit video systems in the rooms where questioning took place. He said he also had no knowledge of the decision to destroy videotapes of the interrogations. Officials said there are hundreds of hours of recordings, but most are of Abu Zubaydah alone in his cell recovering from his injuries.

The circumstances surrounding Abu Zubaydah's interrogation and treatment are still murky and fiercely disputed. FBI agents have opposed the use of coercive techniques as counterproductive and unreliable; intelligence officials have defended the tactics as valuable.

President Bush and others have portrayed Abu Zubaydah as a crucial and highly placed terrorist, but some intelligence and law enforcement sources have said he did little more than help with logistics for al-Qaida leaders and their associates.

In documents prepared for a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, where he is still held, Abu Zubaydah asserted he was tortured by the CIA, and he told his questioners whatever they wanted to hear to make the torture stop.

At the time the tapes were destroyed, several federal judges had issued court orders requiring the CIA and other government agencies to preserve records related to the interrogation and detention of alleged terrorism suspects after the Sept. 11 attacks. Some attorneys are seeking new orders for preserving the records.

Kiriakou, whose account first appeared in a story on ABC News' Web site, said he decided to go public to correct what he says are misperceptions about the role played by CIA employees in the early months of the government's anti-terrorism efforts.

Americans' Safety Is Goal

"It's easy to point to intelligence failures and perceived intelligence failures, but the public has to understand how hard people are working to make them safe," he said.

Kiriakou said he first spoke to Abu Zubaydah in a Pakistani military hospital. Abu Zubaydah was recovering from wounds he suffered in the gun battle that led to his capture.

After he came out of a coma, Abu Zubaydah was initially talkative, holding long conversations with Kiriakou from his hospital bed. The two discussed personal matters that ranged from religion to Abu Zubaydah's private regret about having never married or fathered children.

Kiriakou said he repeatedly counseled Abu Zubaydah to provide details about al-Qaida's infrastructure, leadership and plans. Abu Zubaydah refused and eventually became more defiant.

He was later flown to a secret CIA prison, where he was subjected to harsher methods, including waterboarding, Kiriakou said, adding he made a final appeal to Abu Zubaydah shortly before the waterboarding began.

"You have one more opportunity to cooperate. My guys are telling me that you're being a jerk," Kiriakou recalled telling Abu Zubaydah. His reply, according to Kiriakou: "They're being jerks, too."

Kiriakou said he now has mixed feelings about the use of waterboarding. He said he thinks the technique provided a crucial break to the CIA and probably helped prevent attacks, but he is now convinced waterboarding is torture, and "Americans are better than that."

"Maybe that's inconsistent, but that's how I feel," he said. "It was an ugly little episode that was perhaps necessary at that time. But we've moved beyond that."

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