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Retiree Flow To Florida Slows
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Published: December 20, 2007
SUN CITY CENTER - Retirees used to view Florida as the land of sun, golf and the good life. But these days, Florida sometimes gets a different reaction.
"What I hear from people is, 'Oh, I wouldn't move to Florida with all those hurricanes,'" said Paul Wheat, 69, president of the Sun City Center Community Association and a Florida fan.
If they're not complaining about Florida's hurricanes, Northern seniors occasionally cite concern about Florida's sinkholes, expensive housing, and high property taxes and insurance, Wheat said.
There may be something to his impromptu surveys. Florida has been losing ground as a retirement destination since at least 1980, but recent U.S. Census data suggest the state's appeal among retirees is starting to slip further.
Don Bradley, a sociologist at East Carolina University who has studied retirement migration, said in 2006 that Florida attracted an estimated 13 percent of people 56 and older who moved across state lines. That was down from about 16 percent in 2005. Figures from 2000 show that Florida received 19 percent of migrating seniors.
Until 2006, Florida had led the nation in the "net migration" of people 56 and older (people moving into the state minus people moving out), according to Bradley's analysis. However, in 2006 Florida fell to fourth in the nation in net migration of seniors, after Texas, Georgia and North Carolina. Florida fell because fewer seniors moved into the state last year than in previous year, while more seniors left the state.
While hurricanes and a higher cost of living have hurt Florida, other Southern states appear to be picking off Florida's share of retirees through tax incentives, marketing plans and other incentives.
Other States Trying Harder
Florida developers continue to market to the retirement-minded. But Florida's state government has no formal effort to lure the coming wave of Baby Boomer retirees, according to calls to several Florida government agencies.
A big question: Even if Florida resolves its tax and insurance problems, has the retirement momentum shifted elsewhere for the long term?
"Florida's been sort of the big kid on the block for so long," said Charles Longino Jr., an expert on retirement migration at Wake Forest University. "But other states are trying harder now, so it's bound to affect the outcome."
There's debate about whether Florida even needs more retirees. The state now has about 4.1 million seniors, or about 23 percent of its population of 18 million, according to the Florida Department of Elder Affairs. That may swell as the Baby Boom generation retires.
The United States generated about 2 million new retirees in 2000, according to a report by David Denslow, an economist at the University of Florida's Bureau of Economic and Business Research. That will grow to about 2.6 million per year in 2010 and swell to 3.5 million per year in 2025. That should increase demand for Florida, Denslow said.
Being a retiree haven hurts Florida's schools, some state economic development leaders say, because some seniors oppose tax increases to fund education. Denslow said retirees also create a demand for low-paying service jobs - with the exception of health care workers - and create less demand for high-paying scientists, engineers and managers. That's because those highly-paid professionals often work for companies that serve national and international markets, not local markets, Denslow said.
Still, retirees are a plus for state economies, Denslow and other economists say. Retirees cost states money for Medicaid, but generally require less in state and local services. Generally, retirees provide $4 in revenue for every $3 they cost in government services, Denslow said.
With that in mind, neighboring state governments and private developers are aggressively courting Baby Boomers. For example:
•In Georgia. Gov. Sonny Perdue has been pushing the state's legislature to exempt income from retirement plans from Georgia's state income tax. Starting next year, the first $35,000 in retirement income will be exempt from the tax. Perdue wants the legislature to exempt all retirement income, said Bert Brantley, the governor's press secretary. "It's certainly meant to help attract retirees to the state," Brantley said. "The governor sees it as a revenue-positive idea."
•In Tennessee, the state's economic development department has a new initiative called "Retire Tennessee." The state has chosen nine largely-rural communities that have amenities and lifestyles for retirees and is helping them market themselves as retirement destinations. Among them is Chattanooga. The state also is sending representatives to retirement-related trade shows nationwide and is advertising in Southern Living magazine.
•In North Carolina one of the hottest retirement destinations is the Asheville region. Richard Lutovsky, president of the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce, estimated his area has up to 30 planned communities under development, half of which are estimated to have golf courses. Retirees may buy many of the homes, he said.
'Florida's Slipping'
One new Tennessee retiree is Laura Imboden, a 57-year-old from Colorado's ski country. In the past 18 months, she and her husband have toured the country in an RV, but come July, they will retire to Tellico Village, a planned community in eastern Tennessee. Tennessee's close to family across the Midwest and Northeast and has relatively low taxes, she said.
"Florida had entered our minds," Imboden said. "Most people from Colorado retire in Arizona, but we knew that Arizona was farther than where we wanted to be. And so is Florida. And it's just so hot there in the summer."
Developers that have retirement communities in Florida and actively market to retirees include Del Webb, a division of Pulte Homes, Inc., and WCI Communities, Inc. Company representatives did not return calls for this story.
How many other new retirees will pass over Florida is anyone's guess.
But William Haas, a sociologist at the University of North Carolina-Asheville, has studied Census data and found that in 2006 Georgia attracted 2.78 people aged 60 or older for every person who left the state. In contrast, Florida attracted 1.12 people aged 60 or older for every person who left the same year.
Haas' conclusion: "Florida's slipping."
Five years ago, former Gov. Jeb Bush created a commission called Destination Florida to find ways to keep the retiree pipeline flowing. Among its recommendations was freezing property tax increases for people 55 and older. The tax increases would be deferred until death, when the person's estate would pay the deferred amount.
It also recommended eliminating the intangibles tax on stocks and bonds, and having Florida's Department of Elder Affairs get more involved in the state's economic development arm, Enterprise Florida.
The state eventually nixed the intangibles tax, but commission Chairman T. O'Neal Douglas said most of its recommendations were never enacted. Douglas declined further comment.
Representatives of Enterprise Florida, Elder Affairs, and Visit Florida, the state's tourism agency, said their agencies have no marketing program to attract seniors, and it's not a formal economic development goal.
Douglas Beach, secretary of the Department of Elder Affairs, said the state is working with its cities and counties to make Florida more attractive for young and old alike, part of a program called Communities for a Lifetime. An example is putting in larger street signs to help seniors, Beach said. Also, Florida is starting an effort to attract out-of-state health care workers to the state, Beach said.
Back in Sun City Center, a handful of seniors were molding ceramics during a morning arts and crafts class. Their prediction: Florida will never lose its luster for retirees.
Even Atlanta is too cold for Nan Burgett, who moved here from Atlanta nine years ago.
"I would never move back," she said. "I love the weather here."
"We came down here because we fell in love with it," said Terri Wherle, who moved to Sun City Center two and a half years ago from Ohio. "I do not miss shoveling 20 foot of snow at all."
Reporter Michael Sasso can be reached at (813) 259-7865 or msasso@tampatrib.com.
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( fiorilli ) on December 20, 2007 at 12:19 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Do you notice a slowdown in the tide of retirees coming to Florida? Is the Sunshine State still an appealing place to spend one's golden years? Share your thoughts here.
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Posted by ( lindamr49 ) on December 20, 2007 at 5:19 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
My husband and I (both in our late 50's) moved to Fla 3 years ago to take care of my parents. Our plan was to find jobs, work a few years, buy a house and then retire. We found jobs, worked a few years, and decided there was no way we were buying a house in Fla and we have now moved out. We bought a 3 bedroom house in Tennessee on a half acre. Our property taxes are less than $500 a year. Our homeowners is also less than $500. Our car insurance premium was cut in half. We both found jobs earning more than we did in Florida. The weather is colder but with our tax/insurance savings we were well able to buy coats, hats & gloves. We will NEVER move back.
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Posted by ( txnflfan ) on December 20, 2007 at 5:46 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I m close to retirement age, and I actually moved out of Florida for some of the same reasons. I live in Texas which is also attracting a lot of retirees, due to the lack of a state income tax.
My car insurance went from 900 in Florida to 430 here. I purchased a home a 2000 sq/ft home on 1/4 acre for 130. It would have cost 300 or higher in Florida. I do miss my home state, but I couldn't afford to live there anymore.
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Posted by ( dzeien ) on December 20, 2007 at 6:12 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Yepper, born and raised here. Age 57 wife is 59. Six and Sixers. Six months here and six in Lake Tahoe NV. Compared to here, taxes are 50% less, insurance 50% less, food 20% less, gas 10%higher, staying out of this Florida heat makes it a deal. This will not last for ever. WE have to move away from here soon because of the high cost of living here. Sad but true. You don't hear about people retiring to California and you won't be hearing about people retiring to Florida either. Mover over up there in Tenn. more Floridiots are on their way. And, as Gordon Soli used to say " SO LONG FROM THE SUNSHINE STATE".
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Posted by ( Billy_Bo ) on December 20, 2007 at 6:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Out with the trash. If you can't afford living here, we're lucky to part company. If I had the money I'd retire to Manhattan. That's my dream retirement-land. Florida is a lot cheaper than Manhattan, and I sense the collective IQ of the state will increase as the POVs move out.
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 6:34 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
People not retiring to Florida???
When is this joyous event coming???
I can't wait!!!
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on December 20, 2007 at 6:39 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I moved here from Wis in 2000. I was shocked by the increase in insurance costs even back then for homeowners and auto insurance. I thought the no fault insurance was supposed to save money. Anyway it more than ate up what I saved by not having to pay a state income tax. From talking with friends and relatives back in Wis, it appears that a lot of things have gone up here more than just the insurance and property tax since I moved. I'm not going to head back to the great white north, but I'm not going to stay here much longer either. I hope to be relocated by 2009. Florida's not worth what it costs to live here now. With the crime rate and dropout rate, it seems like gated communities will be the only safe places to live here before much longer
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on December 20, 2007 at 6:44 a.m.
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Posted by ( Oops ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:08 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
If only some of those would take their Manhattan attitudes back North with them...I am personally tired of being exploited by the state legislature, gas companies, insurance companies, crooked auto mechanics, sleazy real estate brokers and health insurance nazis. Other states seem to have a better handle on regulating key industries to protect their citizens, instead of allowing any industry with a lobbyist free reign to plunder and pillage. Good bye, FloriJerseYork.
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Posted by ( cp ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:10 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Not sure I agree that our taxes will go up. Northern urban dwellers are typically more government dependent and expect more services than Floridians. It's not the Floridians begging to have every square inch of road paved in the county and pick up garbage from your doorstep 5 days a week. etc...
This will also help make property more affordable for those who stay here when you removed the people that come from the NE with wads of cash to drive up prices. Maybe it will help break our unhealthy addiction to the construction industry.
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Posted by ( Bulldog ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I relo'd here from Chicago 10 years ago so my wife and I could help take care of my in-laws. Still in my prime working/income years, Florida is not cheap. Real estate is still comparatively less but insurance (auto & homeowners) is outrageously high. Real estate taxes and sales taxes are less than Chicago. My biggest concern isn't the economic impacts and Mother Nature, but the significant increase in violent crime, out-of-control development, water shortage and sub-par public schools. For older people, Florida isn't that safe haven to live anymore when you've got home invasions happening all over the place. I plan to stay - I love the climate and the outdoors, but if anyone wants to try to come into my home uninvited they will not live to brag to their bro's about how bad they are for beating up an old fogie and stealing his stuff!
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Posted by ( Repsolman ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:46 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Florida native. Yep there are a few of us left. Times and expenses have dramatically changed in my 53 years. It seems up until about 10 years ago, Florida was still a fairly inexpensive place to live. Then all of a sudden property prices (can't say values) took a steep increase. Along with that property taxes shot up. Some say property prices went up because folks moving from up north (specifically NY) were selling out for high prices up north and were not familiar with property prices down here. As a result, they were willing to pay more for housing than was even necessary so prices shot up. Taxes being based on a homes value likewise went up. Sounds like a reasonable explanation until you ask what happened to all that extra tax money coming in.
I built my retirement home in 2004 and now I'm looking at ways to pay my taxes and insurance that won't dip into my retirement funds. If I can't do that, I may be forced out of my beloved home state.
I just gotta ask why property taxes are so high when I don't see any change in services. You can't say they had to go up because more cops/firemen/infrastructure was needed for the population increase as those folks moving in create more tax revenue along with impact fees for new construction. It seems like it should be pretty self regulating. I looked at a property in Alabama just 20 miles over the Florida border. Property taxes for an equivalent hosue there were 400$/year while mine are 6000$/year. I fail to understand how it cost 5600$/year more to live here. Same services.
And yes homeowners and car insurance have sky rocketed. Homeowners went up after 2004 blamed on all the hurricanes. Now after two years of not so much as a warm breeze, my insurance went up again....explanation...threat of sinkholes. Give me a break. Sounds more like an excuse to keep rates rediculously high. Sorry this probably doesn't make any point but it gave me a chance to vent.
If anyone can explain why it has gotten so expensive, I'd like to hear it.
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Posted by ( lumi_nara ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:50 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Oh good good good... this sounds fantastic to me... let them not come, go to Georgia or somewhere else... I, plus many other true Floridians are sick of 'em taking up our roads and homes. Go retire else where you old farts! You make it so I want to get the heck outa here, I'm tired of all the snowbirds coming down!
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Posted by ( jac ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:57 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
If you came from a state that property taxes were taxed equally . You would understand that Florida is not the place for you. This is the land of the freebies. It not just property taxes, the exemptions they give to some businesses is amazing. The people that move in pay the price of those freebies.
The tide is turning. We are smarter consumers now and getting smarter. Get rid of legislators that are still giving our hard earned tax money to anyone that ask. Even all of our hard money to everyone that ask. why do you think we pay higher house insurance?
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Posted by ( drb ) on December 20, 2007 at 8 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Almost Heaven, West Virginia...
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Posted by ( ohboy ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:01 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Well, leave if you must, but please, take your relatives with you when you go.
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Posted by ( lindamr49 ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:10 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Some people just don't get it. I'm not a snowbird and never will be. I was a full time, employed resident. The point is that the $2000 a year that I am not paying in insurance alone now goes to local business owners. I can eat out more often so local restaurant owners profit, I can buy new items so local business owners profit. I pay sales tax on these items so the local government profits. The auto and homeowners insurance companies must also be making a profit or my rates would be higher. Personally I'd rather support my local economy than some big ripoff insurance company.
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Posted by ( timbo ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:11 a.m.
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Posted by ( lorditchy ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:12 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
This just matches the flow of young people leaving the state too. Florida's population is shrinking for the first time since the 50's. I don't see that changing any time soon. I've grown up here, and I'll be moving out of state first thing next year. I can't even find the work I used too. The costs have also gotten way to high.
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Posted by ( msplacedinsc ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:13 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I spent 22 years in Fla and met my future wife there also. I moved to SC in 02", it's the Bible Belt all right but as long as you don't get caught up in their hippocritical B.S. it's Ok. We have been able to purchase a home in the Upstate area and a vacation home near the water in Charleston for a shade more than what we spent for one home, property tax, car insurance, and cost of living in Fla. Do I miss Fla...yes, would I raise my kids there...hell no! I'll visit with my kids but all of you residents can have it.
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:42 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Repsolman, The cause? They're called crooked politicians. They're fed by lobbysts and lay bloated in the chambers untill they can no longer get re-elected at which point they retire at full pay and continue sucking us dry untill they die. The funny thing about this is that just about everyone agrees that this applies to our elected officials except for the one we voted for. Since that's the case, the status quo continues.
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Posted by ( alaga1 ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:52 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
AMEN!! to "oboy". I am 77+ years old, and the changes!! We were doing fine; our children said "Yes Ma'am, and Yessir", they knew they'd get "physically" punished if they did wrong so a lot of times they didn't even THINK of it; they minded their parents ( and teachers); there was no child molestation because the molesters knew the law wouldn't have time to take care of it; we WORKED for what we got; "no handouts", we didn't have rape and murder every day like it is now--we didn't hear "it's like you are a slave to say ma'am or sir", it's like "give your children all they want so they won't feel inferior;" -- you dare not leave your keys in your car, much less have to lock the doors and still get it broken onto- can't leave your doors unlocked at home, especially at night- When we had our old ways of living, we had children that knew they had to mind. We had more of home values and less money values when we were the "natives". Then we got people coming down here telling us about how it is "back home" and instilling their laws into our own laws probably due to yankees being in office, and that's when Florida went to the hot place in a handbasket!! I could go back to the old days of wash tubs, and wood burning stoves, and handmade quilts and water pumps without worrying if some ingrates were piling in and making our water disappear; I didn't say it would be easy, but it would be better for all concerned. Just think- Churches and Sunday School, visiting neighbors- sitting on the porch actually talking- listening to our parents telling us about the "good old days", playing outside- but that will always remain only memories, because we've had too many conveniences to go back. That was before interferences from people coming down here and changing our culture to the "back homes". Just venting my thoughts too!! Maybe we [wouldn't have as much], as the "other" people( to not categorize anyone,) say, but we don't need it!! I used to work in retail, and I had to listen to people brag about "up north", so I could only smile and say, "The last time I came back into the Florida, I never saw a locked gate keeping people down here." And to quote Paul Harvey, "That's The Rest of the Story"!!
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Posted by ( robertj1954 ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:55 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
People are screaming about high taxes in Florida.
If the revenue from sales and tourist tax drop, what happens to make up the difference?
I understand how the changing economics of the past decade have caused people wanting to retire to Florida to change their minds. Only the wealthy can have a decent retirement in today’s Florida economy.
To friends who see less retirees and tourists as a good thing. Enjoy driving on roads empty of retired citizens, and tourists. Just don't complain when the majority of your discretionary spending is diverted to paying for roads and other government services. The money has to come from someone.
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Posted by ( mjack ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:59 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
There's one common element I see in all these posts. High property taxes and insurance!! Both problems Crist promised to take care of. Both of which he has failed us miserably.
Vote NO on Amendment One in January -- it will only increase the inequities further in our pathetic property tax system. Sign the petition to cap taxes at 1.35% now.
www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com
The sad truth is not only are retirees choosing not to come to Florida, but that native Floridians are leaving mainly because of the two critical issues mentioned above. Do something to help prevent Florida from becoming a ghost town. Sign the petition now.
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Posted by ( crankyyankee ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:12 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I lived in Fl the first 34 years of my life and would never move back. One of my reasons for leaving is that the population is overextending the available resources. With salt-water intrusion into the aquifers and lack of resources to dispose of garbage and other waste, why try to attract people? Add to that the ridiculous prices for homes (the home I built for $44K would now sell for $350K, but it's not worth that) and the corresponding increases in taxes and insurance-no way. Though we won't stay where we are when we retire, we will not be returning to Florida. I do miss it, but the Florida I miss, no longer exists and I'm only 53.
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Posted by ( tomcat ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:24 a.m.
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I came to Florida 16 years ago looking for a job. Found the job and have prospered. I now want to retire but expenses have increased to the point that I will now have to move in order to retire. Moving within Florida is out of the question. The real estate tax, homeowners insurance and car insurance will eat up my retirement income. I must move out of the state and it will be to Georgia. For those of you who will be glad I am leaving, I leave you with your child predators, home invaders, drive by shooters and all other undereducated products of your society. At least we learned how to spell in Pennsylvania. I think that those who are leaving are getting the better of the deal.
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Posted by ( peak ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:36 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
This is great news, perhaps we're on our way to becoming a real State--not just a vacation and retirement destination?
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Posted by ( unappreciated ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:39 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I grew up here and I love it. I plan to fight for lower taxes and property insurance. What happens if we can get our property insurance lowered? All of the people who left will want to come back? Oh, lucky us.
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Posted by ( unappreciated ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:43 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Oh, and another thing. I just looked up the state income tax in North Carolina. I would be taxed 7.75% on my salary. I would be paying $6200 a year in state income tax. Housing may be cheaper buy I don't feel like paying $516 a month to the state.
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Posted by ( Roberto ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:51 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
It looks like soon we'll be able to drive the speed limit again in the right lanes...
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:13 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Little history lesson for all of you that think this state wouldn't survive without retiring yankees...
Florida was an agriculture state with cheap housing, no state income tax, low state sales tax, low property insurance, beautiful scenery and small town charm until the mid-80's. Then came the influx of retirees (all coming here for reasons mentioned above).
Since the 80's we have had urban sprawl, tract homes, mall after freaking mall, crappy drivers and crappy roads for them to drive on, higher and higher taxes, more demand on the infrastructure and the list goes on and on.
As a native Floridian, I'm sick of transplant bringing the same problems to Florida that drove them from their home states. Bring back the cattle farms and orange groves that made Florida such a beautiful place to live!
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Posted by ( unappreciated ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:18 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
To CitizenJJ: Are you really that dumb to believe that child predators, home invasionns, and drive by shootings only happen in Florida? Last time I looked, Philadelphia schools (in Pennsylvania) were so bad they had to be taken over by an outside agency.
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Posted by ( lindamr49 ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Retiring yankees are not Floridas biggest problem. At least they contribute to the economy. Florida's biggest problems are the people moving in who don't contribute. I worked for Social Services and I saw way too many applications for benefits from people moving to Florida from other states. They were single people on some sort of disability income, single women with children who moved in with mom & dad following their divorce, plenty of illegal immigrants and of course the homeless. You'll be wishing for a retiree with an income of 30 to 40,000. a year
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:32 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
To those of you who feel our state will be better with fewer people, how do you think you'll like the increase in taxes that will be necessary to pay for all the services you enjoy? That will be inevitable when there are fewer people contributing to tax revenues. You can expect your millage rates to climb higher and higher.
Perhaps many of you don't own a home and have not experienced the increase in insurance. Perhaps you've been in your home for quite sometime and pay property taxes at a rate of 1/2% vs the 2% recent buyers pay. Perhaps you don't have any children that you hope will remain in the area.
The sad reality is that you are all so selfish that all you think about is yourself and not what is best for the economic well being of our state.
Wake up and do something to help our state. Go to this site and sign the petition to obtain real tax reform -- not the unjust proposal we will have the opportunity of voting NO on 1/29.
www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
unappreciated, the word is invasions. I rest my case.
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:04 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Taxes were never an issue before the population explosion of the 80's and 90's.
It wasn't an issue until the transplants got here and started clogging our streets, bulldozing our groves and fields, building McMansions that drove up property values that, in turn drove up property taxes.
Look at Florida in 1987 and 2007 and you tell me which generation was in better shape.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:13 a.m.
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Posted by ( Raddish72 ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:19 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Yay!
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Posted by ( unappreciated ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
To CitizenJJ: Wow, you caught a typo. You are so much smarter than I am. I guess I better go flush my higher ed degrees down the toilet. I guess I am not fit to live up north, where all of the "smart people" live.
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I guess you will also not miss my generous contributions to Florida charities such as Metropolitan Ministries. Maybe you can make it up yourself. The homeless and jobless are going to stay here.
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:23 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Solutions include
Moratorium on all new residential construction (SFH, condos, apartments, etc.)
TRIPLE the CURRENT impact fee on all NEWLY CONSTRUCTED HOMES. If someone can afford $250,000, they can afford $20,000 to pay for the roads, sewers and other services that will support thier McMansion.
I can go on all day...
Put the tax burden on those creating the strain on the services.
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Posted by ( tampaguy69 ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:26 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
charlie better get his s**t together as far as challenging the insurance companies and the property tax mess or we won't have to worry about being too crowded in Florida. I remember a lot of big talk during the campaign but haven't seen any relief delivered.
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:31 a.m.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:36 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
To jameswpope:
There are some serious defects in your proposed solution. Construction of new homes has pretty much halted so who is going to pay these impact fees? Recent buyers ARE the ones with the tax burdens who are paying for services we all enjoy. Thousands of homes are empty and/or in foreclosure because people can't afford the taxes and insurance.
Values ARE declining and therefore, so will tax revenues when property appraisers are forced to reduce home values. Those of you who are protected by save-our-homes will no longer be protected when your millage rate increases. People will give up trying to sell and will just pick up and leave their homes behind and people like you will be left to pick up the pieces. Those who are burdened now will be the ones leaving and then who will pay?
Wake up James -- it will be YOU. Please go on all day -- I'm waiting to hear a real solution.
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Posted by ( avent37 ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:37 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Florida is nothing more then a city goin ary. All the politicians cater to themselves and there corporate friends hence we still have no insurnace reform or tax reform. Then you have all these delinquents ( child molesters, rapists etc.)coming from other states. IT is horrible but upon my mom moving onto aq better place, I also will be leaving florida. The charm of Florida is all gone......
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Posted by ( jameswpope ) on December 20, 2007 at 11:55 a.m.
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Posted by ( illini71 ) on December 20, 2007 at noon ( Suggest removal )
We also decided to leave Florida after 37 years. I told enough people if they didn’t like where they were there was nothing keeping them and I took my own advice. The Florida we moved to had changed too much. Unmanaged growth, thanks to developers will to pay and politicians willing to accept monetary favors, has changed Florida to the State of “California East.” My homeowners insurance went from $400 annually to $2000+ and rising, cost of living has jumped to the point that home ownership was impossible for a retiree and rental was as bad.
We settled in Arkansas in the River Valley in the shadow of the Ozarks. Russellville has about 25K population, and growing, and everything you need. Little Rock, Fort Smith, Dallas, Tulsa, Memphis and other big cities are a half day’s drive or less. Rent for a 2 bdrm / 1.5 bath apartment is $500 (includes water & trash), my highest electric bill was $100 in the middle of winter, and my car insurance was reduced by 60%. My basic cost of living went from $1900 a month to about $800. We found a leisurely way of life, loads of recreational opportunities and friendly folks. If anyone is tired of Florida take a drive and check out Arkansas. Last winter we had a total of less than an inch of snow, but the temp are not “Tropical.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 12:03 p.m.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 12:33 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
to: jameswpope
You are missing the point that if no one pays taxes on already existing homes, whether they are bulldozed or not, somebody else will have to make up the difference? Recent buyers are the ones who are burdened the most and as many have posted here, have chosen to leave. There will be many more behind them. Those who remain, will undoubtedly see an increase in their taxes. Protect yourself NOW by signing the citizens petition to cap taxes at 13.5 mills (1.35%). Amendment One does not cap millage rates. It only allows those paying the least now continue to do so when they move from home-to-home. The government can still increase your taxes by raising your millage rate.
Do yourself a favor jameswpope....sign the petition.
www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com
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Posted by ( BobbyO ) on December 20, 2007 at 12:34 p.m.
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Posted by ( WVSoccerMom ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
We sold our home in Apollo Beach and moved to West Virginia. LOVE IT! Our children are getting a far better education here.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:14 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
to cltsig:
I feel your pain. I divorced in 2006, moved to a home of lesser value, but pay 60% more in taxes.
The only solution is to cap taxes. Go to www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com. Sign the petition and ask everyone you know to do the same. With enough signatures, it will put the citizens petition on the ballot for November.
I agree with you on Amendment 1. VOTE NO -- WE NEED REAL TAX REFORM!
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:21 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The entire real estate tax structure needs to be overhauled. Yes, there should be breaks for low-income seniors but there should be an equitable way of valuing a house for tax purposes. I know that recent buyers in my neighborhood are paying much more than I due to the fact that I have been there longer. My taxes are under $1,000 and a new buyer with the same house plan across the street is paying $2,400. Yes, I am benefiting but it is simply not fair. By the way, the new buyer is a Florida native in case you want to make the argument that they are newcomers and should pay more. Also, if I move within the state, my taxes will go up for a lesser value house. The proposed transportability is on a percentage basis and does not translate to the same amount you are now paying.
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Posted by ( Luna ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Imo ship out the criminals (Georgia was at one time a penal colony) and ship in more retirees. They're polite, pleasant and bring LOT of money to this state. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!
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Posted by ( Repsolman ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:28 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The property tax structure in Florida is rediculous. It makes no sense at all. My next door neighbor built a house about 400 sq ft bigger than mine and overall cost less than mine but his property taxes that took effect one year after mine are 2000$/year more than mine. His next door neighbor built the exact same house at the same time and his taxes are another 1000$ higher. So... 3 houses in a row, all on one acre lots, all within 400 sq ft of each other yet property taxes 2-3K difference. I don't get the basis. We all get the same services so why the difference? For that matter, why does any single property owner pay more than another for the same services?
Point being, more needs to be done than just capping taxes. A better distribution of the "necessary" burden needs to occur.
When homestead exemption went into effect, the typical house cost far less than the 25K exemption and government was able to function without receiving any taxes. Now the typical house costs 4 times the exemption and more taxes are needed?
I think the message needs to be sent to the incumbents that the budget needs to get real.
One example I see is that close by me I see Hernando county sheriffs cars parked at the homes of cops. So it would seem that only a portion of the cop cars are in use while others sit in driveways when not at work. How about using those cars 24 hours a day instead of sitting around. Yes the cars will wear out faster but I'd rather insure 50 cars than 150 cars.
The code inspector always showed up while I was building my house in a pickup truck. What...14 miles/gal. How about you give him a toyota corolla at 30 mpg. The only thing he hauls is his own butt anyway. Why a pickup truck?
If we ran our household budgets the way counties spend money, we would all be in serious trouble.
Thanks for the chance to comment. I'll go check out the cut taxes website. It sure can't hurt.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:39 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Thank you Repsolman. You will find the site very informative, and YES our government needs to do a better job with the budget. By capping taxes, it will help force them to do so.
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Posted by ( MRJASPERJAXS ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I MOVED TO EAST TN. 20YRS AGO FROM TAMPA. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IN THE LAST 5 YEARS I HAVE NOTICED AN INCREASE IN IDIOTS ON THE RD. & 99% HAVE FL. TAGS & THEY HAVE U-HAULS FOLLOWING THEM. THANKS TO EVERYONE MOVING HERE THE PRICE OF LAND HAS GONE UP 75%, ROADS ARE ALWAYS CLUTTERED WITH OLD FARTS DRIVING 22MPH CAUSE THE CURVES SCARE THEM, DID I MENTION THAT 10 YRS AGO PEOPLE WERE NICE & WAVED AT YOU, YES JUST LIKE MAYBERRY, NOW THEY JUST LOOK AT YOU LIKE YOUR AN IDIOT FOR BEING NICE. I WONDER WHERE THEY GOT THEIR MANNERS..TYPICAL NORTHERNERS. I AGREE WITH THE NATIVE FLORIDIANS, GOOD RIDENCE. BUT PLEASE DONT MOVE TO TN. WE DONT WANT OR NEED YOUR RUDENESS. I HEAR MEXICO IS A GREAT PLACE TO RETIRE. ASTA LA VISTA
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Posted by ( ad ) on December 20, 2007 at 1:45 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I decided to finally put the house on the market about 6 months ago. I have been here 5 years having moved down from the Boston area because of the warm weather and friends who lived here. I have found, although I do not have children in school, the system is very poor, the Hillsborough County Commissioners are an unfortunate hillbilly joke of good old boys also serving on the Sports Authority and Port Council and with little or no knowledge or finesse to move this area ahead. Let us not forget Rhonda Storms and her divisive attitude. They portray Joe Redner as a black coated charlatan - the man is one of the few who tells the truth and is a successful business man and wants to help the community. People here are so hung up on the "SINS" of others and of course "the children". They do what the developers tell them. The "you do not like it, well leave" attitude of some the born and bred native Floridian seems to be somewhat of the way it is. They have never heard of the term "halfback". Northerners who move here and are now moving - half way - back to Tennessee and the Carolinas. Bye.
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Posted by ( MRJASPERJAXS ) on December 20, 2007 at 2:47 p.m.
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Posted by ( TampaBayTom ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:03 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
WHY CAN'T WE POST COMMENTS ON THE "TEACHER SOLICITS ORAL SEX STORY"?
TBO CENSORSHIP WORKING HARD ? ? ?
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Posted by ( MamaMagic ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:38 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Increased threat of sinkholes is due to Florida's aquifer being pumped dry from lack of growth management. Less people moving to Florida = less damage to the aquifer.
Retirees don't want to pay high property taxes that help pay for education, saying they don't have kids in public schools here. This may be true, but your furure doctors are being educated here, so if you don't want sub-par health care as you age--and you WILL age--you need to help pay for education, and not just reap the benefits of this community. You don't mind having your medical procedures done here, rather than pay higher prices up north, though, do you? You cmplain about our dropout rate being high--too bad you don't want to help fund a better educational system to slow the dropout rate.
If life was so darned good "back home", why'd you move here? You outnumber Florida natives now, and you vote idiots into public because you are so arrogant that you believe we don't know how to run our own home state. I guess if we knew how to run our own state, we'd run it like your home state is run--you remember, the state you left to come here and make it like "back home".
Leave--go home, and take the pro sports teams with you. YOU wanted them; we didn't. Maybe we can get Tampa U Spartan football back--we supported them win, loose or draw, unlike the hypocrits that only pack Tampa Stadium when the local pro team is winning.
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Posted by ( TaintedLove1959 ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:43 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Okay enough is enough. Sure taxes are going sky high, the roads are cluttered. My property taxes are $2200 a year and as a single Mom I don't complain, I love my neighborhood and it isn't a HOA. It was established 50 yrs. ago, nice brick street in a historic neighborhood where I was blessed enough to find an empty lot and build a nice home. I love Florida, can't beat the weather. I've lived in 7 other states and hands down I think this is the best if you list all the pros and cons. Good luck you snow shovelers that want to freeze your butzinsky off. Not me. I'm glad I moved here 21 years ago, great place to raise my kids of course I was always involved in their education and proactive in volunteering in the school system. Take care be happy you woke up this morning. You are guaranteed the sun will rise tomorrow but you may not be here to see it.
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Posted by ( phil ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:47 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
oh yeah the sunshine state, when I retire I will not stay in florida, with the rising crime, property taxes and the cost of living....uhmmmm Costa rica looks very inviting. CIAO!
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Posted by ( midnight ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Adios
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 3:57 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
to Mamamagic:
Retirees as well as long-time residents who are recent buyers do not have a problem with paying property taxes, but believe they need to be fair. Apparently you have been in your home for quite sometime and enjoy paying far less than recent buyers. Of course, you better not move or you'll be singing the blues with the rest of us.
We will gladly pay fair property taxes. Be forewarned that if they do not do something and the current trend continues, those left will be required to carry the burden that was carried for so long by these people you want to leave. Be prepared to see a raise in millage rates and you will learn what it is like to pay more than your fair share. I urge you to protect yourself. Sign the citizens petition to cap millage rates and prevent our government from raping you like they the recent buyers who will soon say enough is enough and move out of state. You'll wish you had their contributing tax dollars when you are asked to make up for it.
www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
To Mammamagic:
I also want you to know that I too am a single mom. I also love Florida and have been here for 22 years. I divorced in 2006 and was forced to move. My taxes are double what they were in the marital home and my current home is worth much less. I would not complain either if my tax bill were $2,200. How much is your home worth? Times that by 2% and that is what you would pay if you purchased your home today.
Despite that I'm paying more than my fair share and believe I have a right to complain, I still love Florida as you do and it would break my heart to leave. I want my daughter to stay close to her dad and grow up in the community where she has lived all her life. I will fight to stay as long as I can afford to pay these outrageous taxes, but I will not give up trying to achieve proper tax reform to save our beautiful state.
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Posted by ( CutTaxesNow ) on December 20, 2007 at 4:19 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Actually my above post was meant for Taintedlove1959.
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Posted by ( moman ) on December 20, 2007 at 4:37 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It is a shame (I think) that nice people who have retired here cannot now afford to stay. I predict, however, we will see a growing in-flow of europeans & canadians replace them- look at what our dollar has done vs other currencies. In 2002, the euro traded at 88 cents on the dollar...today it is 1.43. That represents a 61% increase in buying power the euro countries enjoy over 5 years ago. Maybe they won't drive as slow, but I hope the can stay on the right (correct?) side of the road!
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Posted by ( MamaMagic ) on December 20, 2007 at 4:56 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Yes, I have been in my home for quite a while. I live only 3 miles from my family homestead in North Tampa.
I agree with you about the propety tax situation needing to be resolved. The polls is the place to resolve it. Not just with solutions for individual special interest issues, like the tax cap----start voting people in office that have an interest in Florida for Florida's sake--not just as carpetbaggers that moved here to take advantage of this state and the real estate boom----the uncontrolled growth that is killing our water supply, and crowding our roads. And the new construction is NOT paying for the total impact to the community.
The remark I made about people not wanting to pay taxes was directed toward the folks who retire here & have already raised their kids in another state, and complain about having to fund education in this state. I worked in the health care industry for 30 years; believe me, I heard many, many retirees make that complaint, while telling me that they made sure to have their medical needs taken care of here, before they went home for the summer, because health care costs were higher "back home". In the same breath they complained about how stupid the people here are--you know, the people they don't want to help fund education for, but want to take good care of them when they are sick. Hillsborough County voters wouldn't approve the half-cent county sales tax to help fund education--it was only approved when support fot the new stadium was added into the mix. This tells me that people value pro football more than they do public education (yes, I realize the stadium houses events other than pro football).
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Posted by ( todu385 ) on December 20, 2007 at 5:32 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
DRB dont tell them about WVA and western Va. Let those northerners keep going south. We retired to Lynchburg Va from Tampa 3 years ago and people are finding out about the lower cost of living and the good life here. THe building boom is going crazy here. They are buying up beautiful farmland and building homes and condos and ruining it. Even Liberty U put up a eyesore of LU on Candlers Mountain, luckily I live on that mountain where I dont have to look at it from here. Instead I have the Peaks of Otter as my front porch view. We could not have afforded to retire in Florida or at least the Tampa area. Yes there are taxes on everything but the total taxes we pay are lower. When we moved back to Tampa from Houston after 12 years there, it took us 10 minuites to go to Brandon but when we left 10 years later it took almost 30 minuites for the same ride. You can keep the traffic and high cost of living. Ill take the 4 seasons with no extremes, a little snow, a short summer and beautiful springs and falls.
Four days in Tampa and I cant wait to get back up here on the hill, well other than some good food there as I cant get a Cuban sandwich up here.
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Posted by ( Gladiator ) on December 20, 2007 at 7:43 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I agree. As a florida native I have seen things really go south here. And yes alot of yankees are rude and think everyone here is stupid and I am for one am sick of the mentality from the north. They are rude and do look at you funny when you say hi or hold the door and not all of them drive slow some drive like idiots with no regard for speed limits or school zones. they are in a hurry to get to walmart. I wont stay here to much longer either if I dont see a change in the next few yrs.
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Posted by ( redman ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
happiness is a yankee heading home with a canadian under each arm!!!!!!!
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Posted by ( Soonethanlater ) on December 20, 2007 at 8:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I am so sick of seeing NY style this and East coast that. I don't understand why northerners come here...okay i understand New Jersey because well that state is a sh*thole. Stop coming here! Fly away snowbirds!
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Posted by ( crymeariver ) on December 20, 2007 at 9:15 p.m.
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Posted by ( MamaMagic ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:43 p.m.
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Posted by ( redman ) on December 20, 2007 at 10:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
well stated mamamagic, i am a 62yo native and i have seen paradise slowly slip away
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Posted by ( Billy_Bo ) on December 21, 2007 at 12:26 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Nice comments.
I would like to see a cross-sectional study of migrants to and from Florida. I suspect that money flows to Florida are still quite positive. Most of the outflow is looking for cheaper (unproductive) living. Eg, I moved to AK because I couldn't afford the COL on my fixed income, etc.
Places are expensive because people desire them. I'd take Manhattan, but I don't have that kind of scratch. Florida isn't my first choice, but I think it's a good choice for a family that makes under $250k a year. And to all you hillbillies moving to TN, GA and AK... if you don't think 100k a year is chump change, then you have never made a good living, and good riddance. It's not too hard for a two income household to make $150k in Florida, all you need is some motivation, and maybe a college degree. Let's check the migration patterns against educational achievement. I bet the young and educated aren't moving to the Ozarks.
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Posted by ( Luna ) on December 21, 2007 at 7:47 a.m.
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 21, 2007 at 7:48 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I came to Florida to work and I am still working and contributing to your economy. I believe your hatred for older folks is pretty common all over the US. I guess we remind you of where you are going. Please remember your hateful comments on the older generation when you get there, if you last that long. One of the reasons I am leaving is to find a friendlier place. The older generation has a lot of experience that could be valuable to you if you even cared. An older man came to our office yesterday asking for directions to a church where he was delivering toys for the underprivileged. You better wish people like him stick around.
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Posted by ( zarkmud ) on December 21, 2007 at 7:50 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
There is a lot of pressure on cemetary space. Maybe that is a reason.
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Posted by ( citizenjj ) on December 21, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Now maybe you understand why the older folks like to live in over 55 communities. They feel safer there but are not always safer. We have had a series of home invasions in these communities. Guess it's time to get a gun and learn how to use it 'cause I'm not getting any younger.
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Posted by ( jprestig ) on December 21, 2007 at 9:15 a.m.
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Posted by ( tommyjim43 ) on June 12, 2008 at 11:40 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
We moved to Tampa Bay area in 1989. As one of our children was attending a school there. We moved from Okla & Mo in hopes of inproving our $ supply income?
Well we have been robbed by a rainbow of colors & language that we were not familer with and left for the Gainesville, Fl area where our child was working on another degree. We moved out towards the woods, where property was a little better priced? Where we have been robed over and over by the same kind of what we call weeds.
We have purchase a small property in another area, where non of these type of people live. They pass through and get a slug from these country folks!
So here is our delema, we are attempting to perhaps move here and our
auto ins co. says that if we are out of fl state 31 days our auto ins is not valid?
Are any of you people snow birds and how do you insure you auto. Fl has some strange laws & support illeagals more than americans & tax payers.
Any suggestions on auto ins companies
that will let us leave toe to see our uageing family? We fell like we are a prisoner in Fl!
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Posted by ( tommyjim43 ) on June 14, 2008 at 7:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Well Bill-Bo;
The Clintons will most likley go back to what you call the Ozarks? By the way? What do you consider the Ozarks?
tommyjim
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