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UCF Student Group Seeks Gun Rights
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Published: April 4, 2008
NEW PORT RICHEY - Bill Bunting expects more than 40 University of Central Florida students to attend his gun class Saturday.
In addition to a shared interest in guns, Bunting, chairman of the Pasco County Republican Club's executive committee, agrees that college students in Florida should be able to carry concealed handguns on campus if they hold the proper permit. Under state law it is illegal to bring a firearm onto a school campus.
The students in Bunting's class are members of UCF's Republican club; some also are members of the Knight Rifle Association, a group of students who educate peers about Second Amendment rights and other gun-related issues.
Patrick Hale, 20, a UCF sophomore and founding member of the Knight Rifle Association, said the group formed in November, after the killings at Virginia Tech.
"Response times in university shootings are never good enough," he said. "You can carry a gun in Wal-Mart and other public places. You shouldn't lose your Second Amendment rights when you step onto a university."
Not everyone agrees.
Among them is Richard Beary, UCF's police chief, who said it could be confusing for officers responding to a university shooting if the gunman isn't the only person in street clothes wielding a firearm.
"How are the police supposed to know the good guys from the bad guys?" he said. "That's the No. 1 concern many of us on the campus law enforcement side have."
He said UCF's police force has "dramatically" enhanced its training, from how to deal with an active shooter to training staff and faculty on how to manage stressful situations.
"Many schools have also put together crisis teams to identify individuals who could be a threat," he said.
Those who successfully complete Bunting's program would be able to carry concealed guns if they are 21 or older. Those 18 and older can take the course, but they won't be eligible for their permits until they are 21, Bunting said.
A concealed gun permit does not mean the students will be allowed to bring weapons onto the campus. Bunting, however, said he thinks the group has a solid case for winning the right to do so.
"I talked with some of these people and we've got some pretty sharp kids here," he said. "They're basing their argument on Utah, where students can carry on campus, as well as professors, and they have zero problems.
"The bad guy's always going to have a gun and get on campus whenever he wants to. If students are armed, is that guy going to roll the dice on his own life? I don't think so."
At Saint Leo University, the rules in the student handbook are explicit: "No person is allowed to possess, display or use firearms, knives, switchblades or potentially dangerous weapons of any kind on campus at any time."
University officials are not eager to change the policy.
"We don't see any reason to have guns on campus," said David Persky, assistant to the president.
Terry Danner, a criminal justice professor at Saint Leo, said an armed student body would not deter someone bent on a shooting spree.
"One flaw is you're comparing a shooter to a rational thinker doing a cost-benefit analysis in what they do," he said. "I think the deterrence theory is completely erroneous.
"The probability of a campus shooting is extremely low. It's like saying everyone should carry lightning rods around so if lightning strikes it will go right to the ground."
At Pasco-Hernando Community College, spokeswoman Lynn Rothman said the college does not advocate the UCF students' position.
Last month, National Public Radio reported that 12 states are considering laws such as Utah's, the only state to allow guns on college campuses.
Hale, a political science major, said his group hasn't officially lobbied lawmakers, but he hopes to after attracting more members.
"It will probably be another year or two," he said.
Reporter Geoff Fox can be reached at (813) 948-4217 or gfox@tampatrib.com.
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( WIG19 ) on April 4, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Across the country people are starting to think, from a starting point of "well, we know what doesn't work." That's heartening. As to the CJ prof's comment, he's probably correct in that a shooter isn't doing much risk/reward thinking (although since they usually end up coming out in a bag by their own hand we have a hard time debriefing them). But I frankly couldn't give a rip about whether a shooter is doing rational thinking or not up to the point someone eliminates them and one less person is killed or injured.
You will never know if even the appearance of active resistance to murder will redirect them, even for a moment, get them outside their 'mission' that someone else might live... until you do it.
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Posted by ( BobbieG1 ) on April 5, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"Terry Danner, a criminal justice professor at Saint Leo, said an armed student body would not deter someone bent on a shooting spree.
"One flaw is you're comparing a shooter to a rational thinker doing a cost-benefit analysis in what they do," he said. "I think the deterrence theory is completely erroneous."
I do believe Terry Danner, a criminal justice professor, is telling us something that is not true and he does not believe. No we do not think we spree killers are rational thinkers. And we know that they won't wait to shoot us for the ten or fifteen minutes it takes for the police arrive. That is if the spree killer let's us make that 9-1-1 call. We have seen several shootings on campus stopped by armed students and faculty. We have seen almost none stopped by the police, not in time. Perhaps Terry Danner, a criminal justice, could explain why we see so many more shooting at schools, churches and malls than at police stations, guns clubs and hunting camps? Could it be that even when the spree killer isn't rational he prefers easy targets?
Terry Danner, a criminal justice professor, is using the same dishonest arguments that were used when the Concealed Carry laws were passed. The anti carry arguments were wrong then and they are wrong now.
So Terry Danner, a criminal justice professor, make up your science to fit your world view. Don't be too surprised if those of us who do study the issue HONESTLY don't agree with your views. And good for UCF's Republican club; some also are members of the Knight Rifle Association, a group of students who educate peers about Second Amendment rights and other gun-related issues. Perhaps they consider themselves more Cititzen than subject. Sorry Prof.
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