TBO.com - Tampa Bay Online
Scientology Protesters Take To Streets Of Clearwater
ADVERTISEMENT
Published: February 10, 2008
Related Links
CLEARWATER - Members of Anonymous, a Scientology protest group, marched around downtown Clearwater today holding anti-Scientology signs and wearing wigs, sunglasses, bandanas or hats to disguise their identities.
Most wanted to remain anonymous, fearing retribution from Scientologists, they said.
Scientologists coerce members into paying exorbitant amounts of money, ostracize loved ones they believe to be a danger to the church and harass and stalk critics, said Anonymous member Joshua Nussbaum, a 19-year-old protest organizer.
About 80 protesters, many of whom were in their late teens or early 20s, came out when the event started about 11 a.m. today, Nussbaum said. He said the number swelled to about 180 in the early afternoon.
Scientologists took photos of protesters so they could better protect themselves, but they refused to go out and speak negatively to Anonymous members, Scientology spokeswoman Pat Harney said. Instead, she said, Scientologists spent their day practicing their religion.
Harney said Anonymous members are misinformed about Scientology. She said her religion is not dangerous and definitely isn't a cult. If anyone is dangerous, she said, it's Anonymous.
"Their stated goal is to dismantle the church," she said. "That's anti-American. That's anti-religion."
Issues between Anonymous and Scientologists sprung up recently after video clips from actor Tom Cruise, a church member, appeared on the Internet. Scientology officials said the clips were copyrighted and asked for them to be removed from YouTube and other sites.
Anonymous then posted a video announcing a campaign to destroy the church and calling for worldwide protests today, Nussbaum said. He said Anonymous felt Scientologists' actions regarding the clips encroached on freedom of speech.
Anonymous later claimed responsibility for a series of cyber attacks responsible for slowing access to church Web sites, he said.
"Since then, we kind of realized it's not a good thing," he said. "It was inhibiting their freedom of speech and their freedom to spread their message. We cannot inhibit what they say. … We did claim responsibility for those acts, but we do not condone them anymore."
A media release from the Church of Scientology said Anonymous' actions are simply acts of religious bigotry and ploys to gain attention and that Anonymous' guiding materials are the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf.
Nussbaum said he was offended by the church's comments about his group's guiding materials.
"I don't know where they got that from, but I don't think that's true considering that I am a capitalist and a Jew," he said.
Harney said it was sad to have to hear people protesting Scientology today.
If a tenth of what Anonymous members said about Scientology were true, Harney said, the religion would not still exist. Scientology is a study of knowledge and a study of truth, said Harney, a member of the church since 1979.
Harney said she doesn't know why people would protest her religion.
"Some people like to hate," she said.
Reporter Josh Poltilove can be reached at jpoltilove@tampatrib.com or (813) 259-7691.
Reader Comments
Posted by ( chewyandbert ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
These were 90% kids dressed in black bandanas and rebellion masks. A great example of how false propaganda is spread, in many cases through unknowing participants. Maybe they think this is a video game. Their stated intention is to destroy the Church of Scientology, they've mailed over 20 envelopes with white powder to various Churches, have taken down the Churches website for a day, and are have zero understanding of the aims and religion of Scientology or the worldwide good works of its membership. They need to read what was done to the Jews in the late 30's, stoking otherwise good German people into listenting to Goebble's false accusations against the Jews. Can't "Anonymous" do something constructive like support a Presidential candidate, or protest the rampant drugging of our youth?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
People protest against scientology not because of their faith, but because of the very evil actions of scientology. You can learn more at xenu.net and xenutv.com
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( bowdenfan99 ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Name another "religion" that REQUIRES a membership fee for admittance, and REQUIRES that you ex-communicate your entire family who aren't members of this "religion"
Why did Lisa McPherson die?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:52 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Yes Chewyandbert,
Everyone should read about what happend to the Jewish people, but that has nothing to do with this story. No one is protesting the faith of anyone, only the very bad actions of scientology.
What other group has had its top leaders arrested and convicted of breaking into goverment offices to steal files and bug offices? Google Operation Snow White, What other group tried to frame a writer who wrote a book about scientology in order to have her put in prison or a mental home? Google Operation Freakout.
What other group has this quote about how to handle those who disagree with them? Google " dispose of quietly and without sorrow" ?
No its has nothing to do with faith and when you try to compare someones right to protest the abuses of scientology to what happend to the Jewish people I have to say that just sick.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I thought Scientology was more of an alternative to psychology than a religion despite the name "Church of..."
...
Wait a minute. I'm actually just remembering an episode of South Park.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( vasuba ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@ chewyandbert
The FBI has come and and said the White Powder envelopes you so reckless mention were not from Anonymous and inf act may not have even existed.
But You know what? I bet you knew that. Scientology has a Blatant track record of lies and deceit in the attempt to smear and discredit their Critics.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( anonymous6 ) on February 10, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
chewyandbert- obvious church propaganda, re: nazis, white powder. you're not fooling anyone. religion is free. religions offer salvation. scientology is a product with a hard sell that can escape from once they're caught in the trap.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( AnonSukebe ) on February 10, 2008 at 5 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
chewyandbert:
Anonymous must remain anonymous.
We are exposing the truths of the cult of scientology, not starting a genocide of scientologists. The actions of the individuals do not taint the overall goal we are expressing.
Answer me this: Why does a religion keep itself in secrecy? Why does a religion need money in exchange for help? Should not a religion do its best effort to help the needy (i.e. non scientologists) better understand it? Why does a religion feel the need to halt and stop any investigation or report that shows its true nature?
I'll answer it for you: ITS A CULT!
You say we do not have the full understanding of the Co$. Then express in your truly and grateful words what the church motives, plans, and actions as a "church".
We are constructively banding together as one anonymous exposing the fraudulent cult of scientology.
We are anonymous.
We are legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( chewyandbert ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@vasuba. No I didn't know that. I guess it was just instigated by Anonymous and makes my point. Do you think it just happened out of thin air? No matter who did it, it was motivated by the hate filled videos of Anonymous and whomever else is putting out this falsehoods.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( vasuba ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:05 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Anonymous73 ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
We don't hate the victims of Scientology.
We empathize with the exploited, bankrupted, and murdered victims of the vicious corporate entity masquerading as a religion.
Chewyandbert is welcome to join us on the other side of the fence protesting, spreading the information for free, and protecting our society from the vicious cult of Scientology. Operation "Snow White" can't succeed in this day and age, and Scientology is out matched for the first time in many years.
There is nobody to sue.
There is no website to take down.
There are no copyrights to call in.
We have more pictures of you than you have of us.
There is only Legion.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( vasuba ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
On July 8, 1977, however, the FBI raided Scientology offices in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., seizing over 48,000 documents. They revealed the extent to which the Church had committed "criminal campaigns of villification, burglaries and thefts ... against private and public individuals and organizations," as the U.S. Government prosecutor put it.[5] The documents were later released to the public, enabling Cooper and the world at large to learn about the details of Operation Freakout.
So if they lie and cheat all the time to discredit their Critics how can we believe a word they say?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( rhill ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Pat Harney: "Some people like to hate"
Tom Cruise said exactly the same thing in 2005 on Access Hollywood in response to Billy Bush inquiring about Scientology being the target of criticism. Here are valid reasons to oppose the Church of Scientology:
* Breaking family through its doctrine of "disconnection"
* "Fair game," doctrine of "destroying utterly" those it perceives as impeding Scientology's goal
* Long track record of false imprisonment against its own members
* Fanatical, irrational, and violent anti-psychiatry doctrine
* Doctrine of hard sell with no regards to the financial well-being of people. Consider: "our job as Scientologists is to suck every dime we can from a person."
* Doctrine of infiltration to gain leverage to unfairly protect and spread its own worldview
* Condoning lying to protect and further Scientology goals
* Attack on free speech, in order to keep people uninformed
* A worthless "Personality test" deceptively used for recruitment purpose. As a matter of facts, deception used throughout as a mean for recruitment
* Practicing medicine without a license, while deceptively describing itself as a science that can cure disease, physical illnesses, with terrible consequences for individuals
* Forcing its members to go through mental and physical duress through the "Rehabilitation Project Force" in order to coerce them to comply to Scientology doctrine
* "Suppressive Person" doctrine promoting hate and intolerance
* Treatment of children
* Its track record of using blackmail to prevent its own members from leaving, speaking out
*Etc.
See Tom Cruise's "people like to hate":
youtube.com/watch?v=eB5QVF3BYD8
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( chewyandbert ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Sorry chaps its hard for me to keep up with all of the "anon" postings and who I'm talking to but I can see that you are so engorged with hatred that it would be difficult to carry on a conversation. But I do have one question. Did any of you at any time meet with Church officials say in Clearwater to express your concerns? I mean carry on a conversation, despite anyone being right or wrong on the matter? Anyone???
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( vasuba ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Scientology Was not present at any of the protests to try and talk out differences.
They instead locked their doors. Closed their window blinds and left lackies outside recording with cameras so they can go back and Hire PI's to hunt down the protesters and picket their neighborhoods etc.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The church officals will meet with me. If the leader of scientology will sit down and have a cup of coffee with me and a couple of other critics I will be more than happy to do so.
But really, shouldn't you as a member of scientology be the one demanding a meet with high church officals to demand they change their ways? The only way scientology will survive is for the rank and file members to stand tall and demand real change. Otherwise all the bad and yes, evil acts scientoloy commits will bring its downfall.
Again I will ask you how you can be a member of any group that quotes " dispose of quietly and without sorrow " for those who don't fit the scientology mode? And how can you even compare yourself to the Jewish people with that kind of quote?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( yume ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Anonymous1015 ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( bowdenfan99 ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
chewyandbert,
Are you sure you aren't with the Church of Scientology? If you put "chewyandbert" and "scientology" into Google, there are 1,350 results.
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,350 for "chewyandbert" "scientology". (0.16 seconds)
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Playsitlouder ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:24 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( robertaustin ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Scientology is very dangerous and definitely is a cult. They are not a religion or a church. The goverment should remove their tax exemp status. How many millions of tax dollars have they cheated the City of Clearwater out of. Having been employed by a company once owned by Scientology I endured some of their coerced sales training for my job. I was forced to share my comissions with other employees. Scientology teachings are something we as free people should be fearful of. Scientology is a study of their own cult fantasy, through coerced intimidation and retribution.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:38 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ski masks again. In Florida no less. Trendy.
Oh, and chewyandbert - calling this discusion hate fuled shows your ignorance. This place gets crazy screaming some times and anything really inappropriate gets removed by the folks in charge. This discussion isnt anywhere near that. Shame on you for coming in to someone elses house and trying to set the standard. And lying to do it? Well, that's even lower.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:40 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( DonnaStillwell ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If anyone has visited the Life Enrichment Center run by the Scientologists in Ybor City, you know what a strange experience it is. For those who haven't, I suggest you find out for yourself and form your own opinion. Here's an example. First you take a long personality test then you are shuffled into a cubicle to be analyzed by a counselor who will suggest that you would benefit from taking a number of life enrichment courses. I was a little nervous because my counselor acted as though she took one too many happy pills that day. Anyway, you are then shuffled to a common area filled with videos and books for sale which they highly recommend (my question about library availability didn't go over very well). Overall, it was a very weird experience but I had always been curious so I checked it out. If this isn't a cult, I don't know what is.
I was never so glad to get out of there.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( vasuba ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
chewyandbert is a 22 Year old Male named Brian From Clearwater Florida. His intentions are very apparent, If I had to guess hes a member of the Slave Force Seaorg
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( anonymoose ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
To the author of the first response,
What better for the youth of the nation to protest than an organization that is just one step shy of terrorism. The use of bullying, scare tactics, and an army of lawyers to defend them, even from murder. No organization should be able to raid the U.S. Government and get away with it and its high time the public realized the evils of the corrupt Scientology Empire. Personally, I think it foolish for people to follow that "Religion" because it is not, a religion, it is just a way to gain tax exempt status, brainwash the public and its members. Scientology uses smear tactics, as you can tell, anonymous is not responsible for fake anthrax attacks on Scientology buildings and we do not follow mien kompf. Perhaps, for the first time, Scientology is truly scared, perhaps they should pray to xenu, or maybe kill a few more of their followers, that just might work. Now, I truly hope that me posting this has put me on the "fair game" list, because I'd certainly like Tom Cruise to try and come to my house and kill me. Laughable. Is it truly a religion when a science fiction author says that its okay to ignore all laws of society and people listen? Sounds like an excuse to deliberately disobey the law in my opinion. Scientology is a terrorist group, at the very least an organization of crime, similar to the mafia but on a much larger scale, their enemies are silenced, now they are numerous, they kill their enemies, now they cannot die. Best of luck, Lol Ron Hubbard, burn in hell.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
In response to chewyandbert's statement:
"Did any of you at any time meet with Church officials say in Clearwater to express your concerns?"
No, I did not. Because critics of Scientology are picketed and are painted, unjustly, as child molesters, wife beaters, and rapists by church members.
Cited: http://www.xenutv.com/originals/4th.htm
By the way, Chewy, your Scio-Sitter (the software Scientolgists must install on their computers) won't let you see that. If you would like instructions on how to remove it, we will gladly help. Knowledge is free, and should never be suppressed.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ever think "Hey, this looks like a good place for a picnic!" And once you're down on your blanket, chatting with your girl you look up and see tanks coming in from both sides?
That's how this forum feels tonight.
Nothing's really gotten solved here, has it?
So what happens next? Scientology keeps on Scientologizing and the protesters redouble thier efforts?
...
I think the protestors should start the religion of The Holy Order To Bring Down Scientology.
Recriut members for a few years, throw some bake sales and some survailence parties. And start some new light-hearted holidays while you're at it. I've been thinking we need some more of those.
And then, in a couple of decades or so -you guys can do this sort of thing right, you know? Or at least on a much larger and more public scale, dont'cha think?
I do love a good apocalypse.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( sneakabout ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Name another "religion" that REQUIRES a membership fee for admittance
How about, say, Christians. You have to "tithe" the chuch.
REQUIRES that you ex-communicate your entire family who aren't members of this "religion"
How about, say, Christians. Some "branches" of Christanity tell you that if your family doesn't "believe" the way you do, that they are to be left to go to "hell."
Why did Lisa McPherson die?
Why do thousands die every year in "HOLY" wars?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( chewyandbert ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@xcalibur. You are right. I'll leave this house even though it's not yours or because you've asked. I thought it was a discussion board. But its obviously no place for a discussion or exchange of ideas or an attempt to understand another viewpoint. There is no discourse here. I am not a staff member of the C of S and have been asked by nobody to post anything. I have personally had many wins as a Scientologist and have seen numerous charitable activities by Scientologists, with no desire for remuneration or applause. I have also seen children become more literate and many people get off drugs. I have read many of Hubbard's books and at every turn these have encouraged me to think for myself and as a matter of fact, not accept anything in Scientology if I didn't feel it was true for me (this is a quote by Hubbard). At the very core of the Scientology religion is the rehabilitation of the self-determinism of the individual. I have never been asked to accept anything in Scientology on "faith" or because someone told me I had to believe it. My experience has been just the opposite actually. Thanks for your opinion. I think you should have the right to express it, just as I have my right to express mine based on what I've observed.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( proudmomof3protesters ) on February 10, 2008 at 5:59 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 6 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@Sneakabout:
I haven't been to church in 2 years. I haven't paid them a dime. If I were Scientologist, they just might find me after a car accident and force me into a cell for 14 days where I would rot and die (see: Lisa McPherson).
On top of that, I gave my mum a call today. We talked for an hour. She's an avid Christian.
When was the last "Holy War"? The dark ages. Why, do you think, such governments could get away with such things? Because knowledge was suppressed. Your "church" is suppressing knowledge.
@Xcalibur:
Aye, you genuinely seem impartial. Bravo, most either don't know about this recent flare-up, or they are involved somehow. And, no, we are not going to be changing anyone's mind directly on the forums tonight. Both sides are deeply devout that their side is right.
Regardless, I would not want anyone reading this propaganda being swayed in the wrong direction.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( anonymoose ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Name another "religion" that REQUIRES a membership fee for admittance
How about, say, Christians. You have to "tithe" the chuch.
REQUIRES that you ex-communicate your entire family who aren't members of this "religion"
How about, say, Christians. Some "branches" of Christanity tell you that if your family doesn't "believe" the way you do, that they are to be left to go to "hell."
Why did Lisa McPherson die?
Why do thousands die every year in "HOLY" wars?
Tithes are optional, and its just a means to pay the pastor, etc and help you and your church community.
That is not excommunication.
Honestly, theres no "HOLY" wars. Why do untold numbers die by the hand of scientology? Why did you take an innocent brainwashed woman, not military, civilian, put her in a room alone with no food or water, and allow her to be eaten alive by bugs? Ah, that sound's like the greatest vacation.
None of you scientologist's have yet to answer a question, all you do is ask another unrelated question to change the subject. Being a scientologist elitist and you being "The only ones who can do something about anything" does not give you an excuse to fail at grade school debating. Its really quite simple, give me a counter-point as to why you're right and I'm wrong, make it truthful, if you can handle that, I know its been a while since you've told the truth.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( TitaniumDragon ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:06 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( yume ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
'Why did Lisa McPherson die?
Why do thousands die every year in "HOLY" wars?'
You cant compare the two .. Lisa wasn't in a war she was a part of the Church of Sciontolgy and while in their care was left to die.
check out this vid http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y
Can you explain to me why these sciontologists behave this way. And I would like the answer to come from someone who is in the ''church''
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( anonymoose ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Quiet, too quiet.
Call me crazy but I think they can't come up with a response.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( frozenbuc ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:24 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I didn't see any mention of L Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. He was a science fiction writer, and if you Google and check him out, you'll see he was a dangerous and manipulative man. And if any of you Scientology freaks want a piece of me, let me know. But you'd better pack a lunch, and bring some back up, because it will be a very long day for you. Believe that!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Anon is just too legion.
srsly though, you can only plug your ears and chant the same thing over and over for so long.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( irondawg ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
better yet just call em monkey people thats where they think we all came from
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( sneakabout ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:29 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:33 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@frozenbuc:
That's not exactly the way Anon is fighting this. The Scientology people can believe whatever they want too. Hell, Anon encourages it. We're making all Scientology material availble to download, free of charge.
All scientologists are encouraged to check out their local FreeZoners (the people whom have left the church, but still believe in the teachings; they practice WITHOUT killing people or ruining lives).
As far as physical violence, that's a big nono. Trust me, you will be demonized and thrown in a the same light as "biggoted and unconstitutional" for not letting them practice their religion.
Again, Anon wants them to practice their religion. They just want them to practice the religion FREE of oppression.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( AnonMomAnon ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
i have seen firsthand what happens to people stuck in $cientology's RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force.) We have a 13th Amendment to our constitution that abolished slavery. The RPF is nothing more than slavery. The most horrible part of the RPF is the fact that most of them are from other countries, who know little or no English. Imagine being duped into joining these people and being drug to Korea or a Slovakian country where you know no one, you speak none of the language, you have no money, and they watch you all the time while making you work like a dog sometimes 22 hours a day! How can we be letting this happen in our country?
I'm also very worried about the children of $cientology. If the women are even allowed to have the child (abortions are heavily "suggested" for women who become pregnant because a pregnancy and a child would interfere with their work duties.) Some of their children are taken from their parents and end up in places like Cadet Org.
Anyway, you don't have to read my second-hand ramblings about this, check it out for yourself. Go to www.xenu.net
One more thing: tell me how an organization that was guilty of the biggest infiltration into our government and the Supreme Court declard them NOT a religion, now enjoys tax exempt status? Check out "Operation Snow White."
Inform yourself, people.
By the way? I'm not young and I'm not a geek and I'm proud to have marched with these young people who are brave enough to protest this cult.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( DarthManhandle ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:38 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
scientology is a cult that works very similar to a pyramid scheme. People like Tom cruise are at the top of the pyramid.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( yijen777 ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:41 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
good make some noise. too many people have been hurt by this cult. look it up LOOK IT UP. EVERYONE CAN FIND AN ESCAPEE TO TALK TO. And they will tell you the horror stories. Do not let this organized crime of cult behavior thrive. This country is built on a voice of the people do not let it be silenced by power and money, that is all they have and that can be taken away.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( joeyg ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:45 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
sounds like that religion SUCKS but they are free to worship the way they want, as you are.
If people weren't so IGNORANT about this subject matter, ROMNEY would probably be ahead in the polls. BUt instead, we are going to get somebody who has been part of the problem for 24yrs...if we are lucky.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@sneakabout:
Atheist? Awesome. I'm actually Agnostic. Not enough evidence one way or the other to convince me.
I'm unfamiliar with which sects you refer too. I would be interested to read more :D As with Anon's creed, Knowledge should be free and I would definitely like to be enlightened.
As for the Middle East being a holy war - I really don't want to turn this into a debate over the Iraq War because that is not the topic at hand. Let me just say, however, it is kind of petty to say that one group's protest over a lesser wrong is unfounded because there are bigger wrongs out there.
That's about the same as saying any doctor making advances in curing the Flu should be berated and chastised for not pursuing cancer.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
chewyandbert - I never asked you to leave. And I never claimed this 'house' was mine.
I merely pointed out you were acting outraged beyond what the situation called for in an attempt to further your argument.
This is a well moderated open forum. I think you simply found yourself outnumbered and alone on the political front.
And hell, even if I disagree with everything you said - I'd still feel bad for anyone in that situation.
And Everyone else - We cant hold anyone, Scientologist or not, accountable for the actions of others in the organization or the organization itself. I'm sure some of those people had no better place to go and thier lives are improved. And we cant fault them for wanting to defend something that worked for them.
It sounds to me like there needs to be some form of audit of the churches actions and policies by an outside agency to determine if the chuch can be made to run with fewer 'accidents and incidents' so that these high profile trajedies dont follow them around.
They're a successful group now. They should be able to stand tall and play fair. If not, they should be penalized. We're trying to have a society here.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Ohnoyoudidnt ) on February 10, 2008 at 6:53 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:01 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:03 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Oh, and jackfrost, I am pretty impartial. Thanks for noticing.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Hi Xcalibur,
The big problem with scientology ever being a good group is they feel they must follow the writeings of Hubbard no matter what. And those writings are the problem.
Most were writen in the 50's and 60's when times were very different. Those writeings also say its fine to destory anyone who disagrees with scientology.
I'm just not sure scientology is ever going to be willing to make the changes needed to survive.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Terryeo ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If Hillary gets elected she is going to install a protester's tax of $20 per head, collected at the beginning of every protest hour!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Awwww Terryeo, I don't think she is going to do that. LOL So what do you as a long standing member of scientology think of todays protests?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( sneakabout ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
My sister-in-law is a sect of "Born Again" Christians that are "required" to tithe the church and actually were "required" to build one, with their own funds, after the "chuch" decided that meeting in the pastor's house was unacceptable. As for the "holy" war, I'm NOT referring to Iraq, I am referring to the Palistine and Isreal. As far at that goes, my point was NOT that the young lady doesn't deserve "defenders" and people to remember what happened. It was that this is not the only "religion" that has taken lives for things you and I don't understand and/or agree with. Also, for "churh" that require tithes you need look no further than Jim and TammyFae Bakker and Jerry Falwell. I am currently reading some web sites on Operation Snow White.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:27 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
jackfrost - But these Free Zoners (or many of the) came from the church too, so at some point they felt it was the right choice for them. It's great that some people have seperated the offending traits and moved on, but they can hardly be expected to recruit on the same level as the CoS. So while it is an option, it's a much smaller one at this point.
And,
JeraldR - A lot of people have problems with changing any kind of religious doctorine. And I understand your POV with how writers from earlier in the last century can be harshly out of date now.
Again, sadly, this is either a matter for compromise or violence. Probably a whole lot of the last and finally, the first.
"Times change" used to be just an expression, but lately it seems that it's happening so quickly that the expression should be "Times are changing".
And when times change you have to be flexible and bend with them because if you remain rigid you'll break under the strain.
My hope is that there is enough flexability left in the people of these groups (both pro and con) to get around thier ideologies and the past in order to avoid the only other option.
Hate is a disease. Dont be a carrier.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( mamboon ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
DON'T TAZE ME L RON!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:33 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I have always felt most the members of scientology are good people who really want to do good in the world. Like I said the problem lies in the writing by Hubbard. And remember the members don't get to see the really harsh stuff untill they have been in for years and spent hundrends of thousands of dollars. At that point it must be so hard to tell yourself this just isn't right. And the members are also told that if they learn about things before scientology says they should they might not only go insane but it could even kill them.
No I have no hate for the members of scientology. I have no hate for scientology at all. I do however hate the evil and dark acts done in scientoloyg's name and will keep fighting this fight untill such time they are changed or disbanded.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:34 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
mamboon - OMG! LOL!!!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Queequeg ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:39 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"I'm just not sure scientology is ever going to be willing to make the changes needed to survive."
Nonsense. All religions have changed themselves over the years to survive. Look at how successful Mormonism is and they went and dropped polygamy, one of their defining characteristics.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The thing is Queequeg, they really belive that to change the rule Hubbard laid down will keep them from not only becoming " clear" but will also keep them from clearing the planet. They really belive the only way to save the planet is for everyone to be a member and if you are not then.......
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( irondawg ) on February 10, 2008 at 7:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
they belieave in the planet of the apes
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
JeraldR - Sounds like a cold war mentality intigrated in to the higher ranks of the organization. Rough thing for a church.
Oh, and irondawg - Koko the Gorilla learned human sign language. We didnt figure out thier language first - they learned ours. Think about it.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
@sneakabout: You don't know how happy I am at the last statement you made, that you were reading about Operation Snow White.
This is a brief overview of the church's history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCGP-0545EU
and it's actually entertaining. Albeit shocking, but entertaining.
I could talk to you for hours about how I disagree with Catholicism. But the difference is, I haven't been targeted for my views on Catholicism.
@Xcalibur: Oh, nonono, I'm not faulting people for making the descision to go Scientologist. I'm just saying that there are alternatives out there, less harmful ones that are free and believe the same things.
@Queequeg: Agreed. Right now, the way Scientology can save itself is to drop their corporate, money-grubbing, suppressive attitude. I'm sure it will be left alone after that.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:19 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Agreed Xcalibur
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( floridanon ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:30 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I was one of the protesters out on Ft. Harrison Avenue (aka The Boulevard of Broken Dreams) today. It was a peaceful protest- there was not one arrest nor one citaion given. The thing that struck me the most about the day was how many different cars would go by, honking their horns and waving at us and cheeringus one.. Young and old. Black and white. In luxury sedans and beat-up rustbuckets. Yelling things like "Yeah! Go, kids!" Get them out of our town!" It was so heartening to hear. We marched in front of The Fort Harrison Hotel (aka Hotel Hell) and laid flowers on the sidewalk in front of Lisa McPherson's room. Today would have been her 41st birthday. We marched, here and all over the world today, because Scientology isn't even a religion. A religion believes in a diety, a higher power. A God. Scientology does not. Scientology is a space-opera on a Star Wars scale. George Lucas couldn't have wriiten better script himself. They believe in a mortal re-incarnation (many times over, apparently), but only to those who can afford to shell out the $300,000+ to buy it. Everybody else gets to meet Xenu in The Lake of Fire, I guess. It was so funny today, watching their SO's (security officers) try to intimidae us with their cameras. Photographing us and our license plates. I had a bandana, but I didn't cover my face with it. I am not afraid of them. I'm afraid FOR them. They live in fear. Fear of what they know is the public's increasing hostility toward them. When they have their de-facto leader, Tom Cruise, appear on a video saying that ONLY a "Sci-Fi" will help a car accident victim, you can imagine why they would want it deleted and covered-up. Today was a giant leap in our society's war against "The Cult". Within 2 years I predict "Sci-Fi" will lose their tax-exempt status as well as the right to use "Church" in their title. Today was the beginning of the end.
floridanon@live.com
P. S. Mad props to Dave Anon and Josh Anon for running a succesful gathering.
WE WON!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JDdisgusted ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
all I can say...OMG..get a grip people.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Ohnoyoudidnt ) on February 10, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
floridanon-
I can appreciate your enthusiasm for what you believe in, I will caution you though that the SCN folks will stop at nothing to ruin those who speak out against them. Please be careful. Let there be no doubt, SCN has exploited the loopholes in our legal system and constitution to suppress free speech against them and targeted those folks with their deep pockets that they extracted from their followers....
Be careful when you play with fire, and they ARE fire.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( BrianH ) on February 10, 2008 at 9:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Scientologists teach their followers two main things, and they believe those things. It is how they remain controlled sheep. The things are:
1. Everything good that happens to you happens because of your belief in Scientology.
2. Everything bad that happens to you happens because you are not a high enough level Scientologist.
And once they are brainwashed into believing those two things, kiss them goodbye.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( JeraldR ) on February 10, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
floridanon,
No, there was no winner today. You all did a great job in makeing your voices heard today. But the abuses of scientology will still go on tomorrow and the days to come.
Yes you all were great out there today and a lot of us are proud of you. Not a win, but a great begining. Thousands of new people learned about scientology today. And as more learn and the truth comes out scientology's evil abuses will stop.
And yes, ohnoyoudidn't is right. scientology doesn't play by the rules and will try to hurt you if they can. But thats a choice only you can make if you decide to go on or not. For today just let me say....
Thank you.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( oldcqr ) on February 10, 2008 at 9:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If for a moment we can factor out all the 'crazy' and 'bad' stuff about Scientology, you come up with a pretty good base: That we all have the power to change our lives for the better, and change the lives of others to make them better.
Even when you add back in the 'crazy' stuff about Scientology, it's still not so bad. If auditing and removing 'engrams' makes for a better person then I'm all for it. If manifesting what you want to change within yourself in this way makes it easier for you, great. If believing in Xenu helps, go for it! After all, who am I to tell you how you should better yourself?
It's when you add the BAD things: The deceit, lies, deaths, 'operations', and 'fair game' doctrine, that it all goes south.
I've read several books on this subject, and it all ends up the same way: The books against Scientology all state facts and agree with each other, Scientology spokesmen publicly deny everything negative in the books - and then start with the lawsuits and threats.
A few years ago I was walking through the Citrus Park mall and was approached by a Scientologist for a 'free personality test' during Christmas time. Apparently the Scientologists had leased the old restaurant across from Rice and Co - but you wouldn't know it. There were plenty of signs that they could help with holiday depression/etc but not a one saying it was a Scientology entity.
Tell me, would any 'above board' entity forget to tell the public who they are? Or is it possible that they feared no one would come if they actually said they were Scientologists?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( dewite1 ) on February 10, 2008 at 9:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Church ?
NO...........
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( NEDLY ) on February 10, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I sawa a car accident today, I was the only one to help, I am tom cruize hhahahahhahahahahha but really take me to your leader.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Ohnoyoudidnt ) on February 10, 2008 at 10:05 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( darkhappy ) on February 10, 2008 at 10:15 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Dear Anonymous,
I am sure by now Scientology is already joining your ranks and pretending to be one of you. It would not be hard considering how many of you there are, and I seriously doubt they have anything better to do.
Also, I think David Bunker is right - don't do anything illegal!
WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES??????????????????
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( tballinger ) on February 10, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
You people are all freaking crazy!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 10, 2008 at 10:41 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
All people are freaking crazy tballinger. You just have to know what makes them that way. And it appears that this debate is what does it for some.
And I hope everyone gets a good nights sleep tonight. I'm sure everything will look just a little bit better in the morning.
Good night Anonymous Legion and JeraldR. Good night Scientologists everywhere, jackfrost, Free Zoners, chewyandbert and everyone in between.
Tomorrow's bound to be a big day too. I understand the future's on the way.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( tballinger ) on February 10, 2008 at 10:52 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( floridanon ) on February 10, 2008 at 11:36 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I did it! I made News @ 11! They had me on! And my REAL NAME!I ain't "Anonymous" no more! I'm a TV news star. Well not really, it was only a 10 second clip. But they called me and told me to call news archives in the morning and I could get the clip. My mommy is gonna be so proud of her little boy! Oh yeah! Co$ is gonna git me
now! And they gonna hurt me hard! But that's OK cause they spelt my name wrong anyway...but it was still ME! I'm gonna be elected Director of The Chanolgy Project. OH man I'm in over my head now. I hope nobody reads this. If so, please have them put on my gravestone "he was kiiled by Scientology for speaking his mind on TV"
thank you very much and have a nice day!;-) floridanon@live.com
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Terryeo ) on February 11, 2008 at 12:17 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
bowdenfan99 suggest a membership fee is required to enter Scientology Churches. More, bowdernfan99 states the Church REQUIRES that you ex-communicate your entire family. You are mis-informed bowdenfan99. Walk in the door, refuse the free membership, buy a book, take a course or learn what the religion is about. Your vehemence does not make your misinformation accurate.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jackfrost ) on February 11, 2008 at 12:39 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
/bow Xcalibur.
You have a good night, bud.
Also, I hope everyone does a bit of research and a bit of eye opening at this. That's all Anon really wanted. Educate yourself as to what is living in our own backyard.
Then you can decide if their actions are tolerable in society.
Oh, and tonight I'll leave you with a movie by a small group of ex-scientologists called "Voiceless"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO_kcUCQSl8
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( RobKay ) on February 11, 2008 at 1:16 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Natalie ) on February 11, 2008 at 2:09 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Amen RobKay, whatever happened to our USA freedoms? Armageddon people, get your house in order and wise up. GOD will win.
This is totally outrageous on all sides. Get on your knees and wait and see. Rapture is coming and we will finally be free. NO, I am not on drugs, just a believer in the GREAT I AM.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Natalie ) on February 11, 2008 at 2:14 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
OK, maybe I was a bit extreme, I'm just saying...
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( CLD ) on February 11, 2008 at 5:59 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
hey chewyandburt..........
http://www.precogs.net/images/060329_bush.jpg
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( drmagoo ) on February 11, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I am not a scientologist, but if somebody was protesting outside of my church saying I should be banned I would jack them up. Those protesters should be arrested for hate crimes.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Dawg_In_Tampa ) on February 11, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
My friends $cientologist ex-wife just died of cervical cancer. She refused all conventional treatement, even though she was told the cancer was caught early enough, and she would most likely be cured. She decided to allow her $cientology doctor to treat her instead. Interestingly enough, her $cientology doctor declared her "cured" of the disease.
Sad... Another victim of the cult...
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( jb690 ) on February 11, 2008 at 9:19 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( barbz ) on February 11, 2008 at 9:54 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( 6ftunder ) on February 11, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Protesting is incredibly stupid. And who has time to do that anyway? Don't any of these people work? It resolves nothing. Get a life people.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( 6ftunder ) on February 11, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Okay and also, does anyone think even for a minute if Tom Cruise or anyone in his family got cancer or anything else, they wouldn't go straight to the doctor? They totally would. They are full of crap.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Yankee ) on February 11, 2008 at 11:15 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Vulcanized ) on February 11, 2008 at 11:54 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( EyesOverPinellas ) on February 11, 2008 at 12:53 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( anon00025 ) on February 11, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Chewyandbert, your family loves you and misses you.
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 11, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( MyNameIsJob ) on February 11, 2008 at 1:42 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( texigator ) on February 11, 2008 at 2:19 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Thorn ) on February 11, 2008 at 2:28 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( 6ftunder ) on February 11, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Thorn is 100% correct and all of you that allow yourselves to be brainwashed and worship and live by the rules of an imaginary man are whack...just so you know...
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 11, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
L Ron Hubbard was imaginary? Ths just keeps getting better and better! <chuckle>
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Vulcanized ) on February 11, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
MyNameIsJob, Thorn, 6ftunder, texigator: Amen brothers/sisters! LOL Thank imaginary being (lol) you are all making sense!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( MyNameIsJob ) on February 11, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Umm, he was referring to "God","Allah","The Flying Spaghetti Monster","Buddha"...etc
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( lolalove222 ) on February 11, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 11, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
MNIJ- The Flying Spaghetti Monster owes me $5.00. And the Loch Ness Monster owes me $3.50!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Cookie ) on February 11, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It is nice that this generation finally started to stand up for something. My mother protested in the 60's and 70's and I always wondered where all of that activism went. I started researching Scientology a few years ago only because I thought I could not judge something until I know more about it. After reading their own literature and speaking with members and ex-members, I think that Scientology is more of an idealism than a religion. I grew up in Catholic and Baptist homes and to Tithe is not only about money, you are to give of yourself; volunteer, help the needy, etc. My family and church never abandoned me for dating a Jewish person or an Agnostic for that matter. My studio mate in college was into Scientology and she said that she was not allowed to attend family gatherings because her "church" said that it would possibly lead her to join another belief. She was told to not focus on havig children. She eventually dropped out because she could no longer afford her tuition because all of her money she made at her part time job went into buying into "the next level". It has been about 4 years since I have seen her. She became extremely introverted and didnot speak to any of us after a few months. We never pried at her about her religion because it was not really known about at that time (plus we were all running from the Bible guys that told us on our own campus we were going to hell if we studied with the opposite sex).
I always believed that if your fath is based on good deeds and living a good life, then you are ok to me. This Scientology thing just scares me when I see what it is doing to people. Plus, why do they hide their identity with "free stress/personality tesr" that smells of "beware yee who enter"
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( MyNameIsJob ) on February 11, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The funny thing about religion is, why does someone generally have to be scared into doing right by people? Shouldn't you just do right by people anyways?
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( Vulcanized ) on February 11, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Exactly!
Report Inappropriate Comments
Posted by ( tinamarina ) on February 11, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"If a tenth of what Anonymous members said