TBO.com - Tampa Bay Online
Look Who's Rolling And Strolling Through Bars
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Published: February 12, 2008
These days little children are brought along to places that would have been considered inappropriate a generation ago: four-star restaurants, cocktail parties, rock concerts. But for all the sniping from adults who resent this territorial invasion, the onslaught shows no sign of letting up.
In fact, one of its latest flash points is the local bar.
When the owners of Union Hall - a moody, dark-paneled bar and brunch spot in the Park Slope section of Brooklyn - recently posted a sign that read "Please, No Strollers" under another one reading "No One Under 21 Admitted," they did not see it as a declaration of war with the neighborhood's sizable population of young parents.
"The word gets out that this is a place for baby buggies to go, we end up with eight to 10 strollers, or 15," said Jim Carden, an owner.
He explained that the goal was simply to make sure that the preferred transportation for toddlers of the stay-at-home parents who had adopted the lounge as an afternoon hangout would not crowd out the regular patrons.
Perhaps he underestimated the neighborhood's vocal and proactive parents. Local parenting blogs were soon bristling with denunciations.
"This was a perfect winter moms' group place for those of us with infants going stir-crazy," wrote one woman on only theblogknowsbrooklyn.com, wondering testily why local mothers could not at least drop in for "a beer once a week when it's not crowded."
Of course, the practice of bringing babies and young children to bars is hardly exclusive to Park Slope. The issue has been debated in online message boards in cities including Minneapolis, Philadelphia and Washington.
A woman in Boston, recently posting to yelp.com, a national, user-generated city-guide site, seemed appalled to see a 7-year-old next to her at a bar. ("There were cubes, crayons and candy on top of the bar," she wrote. "Does anyone else think there's something wrong with that?")
In England, the JD Wetherspoon chain of pubs recently implemented a rule making sure that parents who bring young children not only eat a meal but also stay for no more than two rounds.
After a recent smoking ban, more families have been bringing children to pubs, and a spokesman for the chain was quoted by the BBC as saying, "Once the children have had their meal, we can't see a reason why they should still be in the pub."
In New York, too, the smoking ban has altered the bar's image. No longer a den of adult sin, the local tavern is seen as an attractive option for afternoon gatherings among parents. (Neither New York state nor city law forbids minors in bars, although state regulations say children younger than 16 must be accompanied by an adult, a State Liquor Authority spokesman said.)
It makes extra sense, parents said, in Park Slope, where the demarcation between generations has blurred - in Brooklyn, hoodies and skateboard sneakers constitute a uniform for parents as well as their 5-year-olds.
While critics of bringing children to bars are vocal, some parents have embraced the habit with gusto. In recent years, mothers in Manhattan gathered for Wednesday afternoon cocktail mixers called Tots and Tonic.
One former attendee, Christen Clifford, a writer and actress proudly recalled breast-feeding her son, Felix, at the bar before ordering a martini.
It's one way of denying that your youthful exploits come with a shelf life, she acknowledged.
"Psychologically, you feel like, 'Oh, my life hasn't changed that much,'" she said, "although of course it completely has."
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( Dave ) on February 12, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Hey! There's always the gun range!
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Posted by ( redhand ) on February 12, 2008 at 3:21 p.m.
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Posted by ( j__z ) on February 12, 2008 at 3:39 p.m.
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Posted by ( Squish ) on February 12, 2008 at 3:43 p.m.
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Posted by ( nonegiven ) on February 12, 2008 at 3:43 p.m.
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Posted by ( MadameMin ) on February 12, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
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Posted by ( redhand ) on February 12, 2008 at 6 p.m.
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Posted by ( flakygrl ) on February 12, 2008 at 7:54 p.m.
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Posted by ( signit4bes ) on February 12, 2008 at 8:33 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The kids are probably safer in bars than in school.
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Posted by ( pinkdanielle ) on February 12, 2008 at 9:53 p.m.
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Posted by ( IREADER ) on February 12, 2008 at 11:56 p.m.
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Posted by ( JNXD ) on February 13, 2008 at 5 a.m.
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Posted by ( canegirl85 ) on February 13, 2008 at 7:03 a.m.
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Posted by ( lauriem ) on February 13, 2008 at 8:52 a.m.
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Posted by ( joeyg ) on February 13, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
DAVE, What's wrong with the gun range? I've taken my kids there PLENTY of times. Seriously.
My oldest girl likes to shoot the pistol, a 9mm S&W.
Let me guess, you are a democrat? That would explain a lot.
So you think GUNS ARE BAD, right? And I guess me teaching my kids how to shoot is going to make them criminals?
Well, in case you've had your head in the sand, gun violence is committed by CRIMINALS, not law abiding people like me and my family (none of which have ever even been arrested).
So if you have a problem with GUNS, hit the streets and get them out of the hands of the criminals, 90% of which are your fellow DEMOCRATS.
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Posted by ( Stcroix ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:15 a.m.
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Posted by ( Stcroix ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Children should be kept out of bars period. GO to Chuck-E-Cheese or something they serve beer. It is so annoying to be in a place where grown ups are to be and you hear a little one screaming.
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Posted by ( Stcroix ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:22 a.m.
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.
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Posted by ( Stcroix ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:28 a.m.
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Posted by ( Stcroix ) on February 13, 2008 at 9:31 a.m.
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on February 13, 2008 at 10 a.m.
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on February 13, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think I should add, it was considered respectful not to eat before church if you were going to comunion so everyone was hungry after the service. You didn't show up at church with liquor on your breath and usually at least in fall, the church crowd left the bar before the football fans arrived. Come to think of it the bars put out a pretty good spread at half time too. I never thought about how much food those bars served.
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Posted by ( userken ) on February 13, 2008 at 10:10 a.m.
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Posted by ( joeyg ) on February 13, 2008 at 10:11 a.m.
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Posted by ( joeyg ) on February 13, 2008 at 10:19 a.m.
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Posted by ( Duckie64209 ) on February 13, 2008 at 11:01 a.m.
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Posted by ( GAlanJag ) on February 13, 2008 at 1:25 p.m.
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Posted by ( JRain ) on February 13, 2008 at 5:26 p.m.
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Posted by ( hoa_ghost ) on February 13, 2008 at 5:58 p.m.
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Posted by ( connie63 ) on February 13, 2008 at 6:02 p.m.
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Posted by ( Xcalibur ) on February 13, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.
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Posted by ( Mrs_Danvers ) on February 13, 2008 at 11:43 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Why, oh, why am I not surprised that the locale featured was Park Slope?
I predicted when we left that enclave('94) that the local watering holes would soon become "Snots and Shots." Thank the Lord that I now live in an area where "No One Under 21" is strictly enforced.
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Posted by ( unlokit ) on February 14, 2008 at 12:04 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
redhand,
You equate illegal immigrants, people that broke the law by entering our country, with the murder of 11 million innocent people?
Apple, meet Orange.
You must have been educated in the public school system. Only someone educated in the public schools could draw such a stunningly stupid comparison.
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Posted by ( erj3 ) on February 14, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Its illegal in Florida to seat a child under 21. Try it, I'll turn you in, in a minute. These mothers are getting worse and worse. Look at the 20 year olds, mostly lazy scum that thinks there entitled......
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Posted by ( yoitsho ) on February 14, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
As a stay at home mom myself I can relate to another mom needing a drink at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I am going to get my 3 kids dressed and take them down to the local bar and start boozing it up. I am just going to do it in my own house. I also wouldn't want my kids to see their mommy get hit on by some hottie. Mom's if you want to be more social join a mom's group and keep your kids out of the bar!
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Posted by ( robertj1954 ) on February 14, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
It is a sad commentary on society when children are allowed in establishments serving alcoholic beverages. I am not referring to resturants serving alcoholic beverages. I am referring to beach bars and the like. I have seen mothers and fathers, most likely single, frequenting these places trying to find a man or woman while the bar patrons entertain the kids. What a great learning environment. It is ignorance on the part of the parents.
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Posted by ( Jazz ) on February 14, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I agree with Robert that this is a sad commentary on our society. There are no morals. Folks just do whatever!!! No wonder there are so many illegitmate children produced by women/girls who expect society to support them. In this day -- women have children, may or may not marry the father, buy a house - most can't, and then perhaps, just perhaps, they marry. And we celebrate this behavior by having baby showers and celebrating the birth of yet another child without a family.
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Posted by ( yoitsho ) on February 14, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Why are you (Site staff) removing all the comments! They are people opinions and I didn't find them out of character.
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Posted by ( robertj1954 ) on February 14, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Wow that was a first time for me : )) Looks like somebody has been letting the bars babysit there kids on staff. Shame on ya.
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Posted by ( zarkmud ) on February 14, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Where else are these toddlers going to learn responsible drinking?
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Posted by ( mbail64 ) on February 14, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I agree with the gun rang. It is better to teach the kids early about safety and let them shoot. by doing this they know to leave the gun alone. If they wnat to show it to freinds that can be done when mom and dad or at home.
As for the bars the kids need to stay home.
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Posted by ( wytediver ) on February 14, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
it could be worse they could be sitting in goverment paid housing smoking crack with their mom and trading food stamps with some black man that just got let out of prison
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Posted by ( sparkle24 ) on February 14, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
How ignorant these mothers are. Drinking, then probably getting in a car with your child to drive them home. NY is not the only place it happens, I've seen it here. If you can't go without the beer or booze, perhaps you should stay home. Don't endanger your child, or the rest of us for that matter. If you want to have a beer or two - find a sitter. Rediculous...
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Posted by ( canegirl85 ) on February 14, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
yoitsho, I was just wondering the same thing. They took down my post that had nothing crude in it. All I said was that I take my kids everywhere but I draw the line at a bar. If we want to go out to the corner pub then we leave them at home with our 18 year old son. I only added my own question. If mommy's are taking the little ones to the bar are the daddy's going to start bringing them to the strip clubs while they enjoy the 2 for 1 lap dances? Please tell me why my post was taken down?
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Posted by ( situp ) on February 14, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I took the article to mean that they were walking in from the local area which is why they were using the strollers. Can't say that the kids need to be hanging out in bars but we really do not know what the place is like or what the people are like.
Interesting that someone brought up a gun range as a comparsion (a bad one). The gun range is a perfectly safe place for a parent to take kids old enough to listen and understand basic rules. Both my kids shoot, hunt and fish regularly. They love putting food on the table, it teaches them responsibility, I know where they are and it gives me a chance to spend quality one on one time with them.
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Posted by ( bxgurl ) on February 14, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Why is it that people think it's okay to bring their children anywhere and everywhere? Some things were meant for adults, please leave it that way. Unless you want me and the other grownups to take over the playground, keep your kids out of the bar.
And stop crying about stroller bans. It's not a ban on the child, but the device. Maybe if parents didn't opt for strollers the size of a Toyota Rav4 more often than not, stroller bans wouldn't exist. Carry your child if you must take it to the bar, restaurant, or museum that the kid has no interest in to annoy the other patrons.
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Posted by ( Aquaholic ) on February 14, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
why some many posts removed tbo? Were they all that bad!
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Posted by ( crysntrin ) on February 14, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Whats the difference between this and any other restuarant? It doesnt mean the moms are going to get wasted. I don't see anything wrong with it. I guess the people commenting, must not drink, or they never go to restarants with their kids. Just cause you are a parent (possibly a single parent, who does not have any help) doesnt mean you should lose that right.
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Posted by ( brobeth1 ) on February 14, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
OMG! I can't believe all these people that want to push their little (angels)on the rest of us! When my kids were little we only went to family restaurants with them. If we wanted to have a drink we had a babysitter. No one wants to go to relax and have a drink and have some little rugrat start screaming. And another place they don't belong is in an R rated movie. I guarantee a confrontation if I hear a kid whining. We don't need to have to put up with other peoples kids.
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Posted by ( noles2u ) on February 14, 2008 at 10:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
don't I have a right to be able to partake of an ADULT beverage without a child sitting on the stool next to me?
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