TBO.com - Tampa Bay Online
Jim Norman's Disappointing Focus
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Published: February 20, 2008
Hillsborough commissioners agreed two weeks ago that they needed a better relationship with the city of Tampa to collaborate on ways to save taxpayers' money.
Now comes the first suggestion from Commissioner Jim Norman: To prohibit the city's fire-rescue department from working half the home games at Raymond James Stadium. He wants the overtime work to go instead to his buddies in the county's politically powerful firefighters' union.
It's campaign season, you see, and the term-limited Norman is running for the Florida Senate seat of Victor Crist, who also is term-limited and said to be eyeing Norman's commission seat.
The firefighters' union is a big player in politics because it's willing to donate money and walk door-to-door to support "friendly" politicians. In return, the union has secured lucrative contracts and gains new concessions almost every year.
Precedent and performance call for keeping the stadium's fire-rescue service - which costs about $6,000 per game - as is. Stadium officials say the quality has been first rate, so Norman's proposal is a solution in search of a problem. A county ordinance may make his takeover attempt unfeasible.
It's distressing to see Norman use his position on the Tampa Sports Authority to indirectly help his campaign.
What's more distressing is the realization that Norman is incapable of rising above personal, petty politics to focus on the big challenges facing this community.
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( dalatorr ) on February 20, 2008 at 6:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Just out of curiousity, what would it cost to have the County do it? More?
It is a COUNTY sales tax that paid for the stadium, not a city tax - why would the county NOT get a piece of the action? What about volunteer fire departments in the county - they might like the attention and community service aspect, and would probably do it for free. Did anybody ask them?
Oh, no - it's south Tampa people who make these decisions, I guess, so a squad of brave volunteer firefighters from Lutz or Valrico need not apply.
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Posted by ( Fred ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Typical tripe from the Tribune. They can't understand that they no longer hold all the power in Hillsborough County. They are now a minority. Hey Pammy! Get used to it!
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The volunteer dept.s have their hands full defending themselves from the HCFR firefighters union. So they (HCFR) can run less calls and live close to home.
A starting county firefighter makes $43,000 a year, and a city firefighter makes $35,000 doing the same job. At best we're talking about $1500 the county wants to take from city firefighters. HCFR should have taken the Amphitheater when it had the chance. Stop picking on Tampa Firefighters, Union Brothers.
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Posted by ( ENVOY1 ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The Stadium is in the city limits, thus City Firefighters should have 1st grabs. Speaking of tax dollars City residents contribute over 1.2 billion dollars to the county property tax rolls, the tourist tax of nearly 100 million is mostly generated within the city limits of Tampa, a large chunk of the community investment tax is raised within the city limits of Tampa, Gas taxes, sales tax, etc. Unless things have changed The City does pay for part of the Stadium. The County is under the impression that unincorporated Hillsborough is the only one funding their budget. I think they need to take a hard look at where a large percentage of their money comes from, which is from people and business owners within the City of Tampa limits. Maybe Jim Norman should be concentration on the Sheriff’s Office who is so understaffed our neighborhoods have become free for alls for criminals instead of side jobs for firefighters. Norman is a divider and has no buisness being a leader, role model or politician.
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Posted by ( louiseintampa ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The BOCC and HCFR have been selling out off-duty EMS services to the privates and simply giving away what would have been lucrative opportunities for their county firefighters. Now they want to come into the City limits? The real issue Jim Norman and the Hillsborough County Firefighters Union president should be pursuing is with the rest of the BOCC and the HCFR Fire Chief. There would be plenty of off-duty work for Hillsborough County firefighters if their own Fire Chief and the BOCC.
If even one single Tampa Sports Authority Board member votes in favor of this move, it only proves their own incompetency as Jim Norman has already established his own.
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Posted by ( tampaguy69 ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
How can anyone be surprised by any sleazy endeavor attempted by someone of Norman's questionable character????? Slimy and self-serving. Big surprise from someone like him.
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Posted by ( HCFRMedic ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
In reading through all the posts, it is evident that both the city and the county contribute towards the successful operation at Raymond James Stadium. So why is the suggestion that the county firefighters be able to reap some of the rewards from that venue such an issue? I could understand if the suggestion was made that Hills Cnty were to be given exclusive rights.
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I don't understand why the County would pay the City for handling the stadium or the airport for that matter if the County pays for the two of them. I have been told that the County has far more resources and training, if that is true why are we paying for a lesser service?
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 20, 2008 at noon ( Suggest removal )
Because you are taking money out of the pockets of your own brothers and sisters you scab! Why doesn't your union try to get you into you own venues first instead of allowing them to be subcontracted to the privates. You and I both know it's no coincidence that you are trying to muscle in there the year of the Super Bowl!
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If the County is sub contracting it's services out to other enities, then they should take a stand and handle their own venues like the stadium and airport athourity, HUH?
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 20, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Amazing, how quick people are to jump at another persons charachter and start name calling whent they do not get their way. The only reason Tampa's starting salary is lower is because their union is worried about taking care of their senior employees first, so their union negoations have little effect on those starting out. What is the big problem with the city sharing some of their overtime opportunities with the county, "brother hood" right? Is the city afraid the county will do a better job and then they will be out? Lets see what makes sense here:City 100%, County 0%, 0r City 50% and County 50%, like I tell my kids do I need to call they sharing police? I understand it is great opportunity for overtime, but what makes one department more worthy than the next? If the city continue to whine and throw temper tantrums maybe they county should just take over the whole venue, or was that what they are afraid of in the first place.
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Re:
You are correct, the County does have far more resources and traing. God forbid, the county would also be able to handle a multi casualty incident much better than the city.
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If you want to work the stadium so bad why don't you come get a job with the city? It is probably because you don't meet our stricter standards or perhaps you are afraid of a little fire and running actual calls as opposed to sleeping in the woods all day long.
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Posted by ( concernedcit1 ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Wow, there are all kinds of issues and complaints being discussed here. Volunteers wanting a pat on the back, Commissioner Norman bashing. How about comments on the freaking subject? Fact: TFR has be riding this gravy train for far too long. Fact: They stated that the stadium is in the "City" so they should provide coverage. Then does this mean that only people who live in the city should attend the games that I and other County tax payers fund? Don't county rescues transport patients to hospital in the city? Fact: TFR and always be involved in shady, backdoor deals mainly their solicitation practices in the county. They don't mind taking monies from County citizens under false pretenses now they are crying foul when the county wants a to participate in providing medical service at Raymond James? How about the number on issue that should be on everyones minds is PUBLIC SAFTEY!!! Those that want to use this a a forum to "cry" about being a volunteer should 1.) go elsewhere & 2.) Maybe reconsider why you are volunteering if you feel so unappreciated. When I go to the games the Tampa FF's are usually eating, giving out their phone number and complaining about how bored they are.
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Posted by ( rgmlutz ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Now children, behave.
As a taxpayer, realizing that Hills Cty legally owns the building and pays 2/3 of the expenses at RJ Stadium, it would only make sense that the HCFR personnel have an opportunity to participate.
As often as the Tribune recommends that the city and county partner at any level or function of government, it's odd they don't support that in this case.
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Posted by ( dlynn336 ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Some clarity and facts here. The County pays 2/3 the cost and owns the building, don't you think its fair that county firefighters be allowed to work in the same arena with our brothers and sisters from the city. Secondly these are not UNION jobs, because they are privately contracted and don't adhere to the FLSA rules and wages. Third, in a catastrophe, Hillsborough County firefighters would be right there in the middle of the event because of long established mutual aid agreements. I think the knowledge of day to day operations would only benefit the attendees if such an event was to ever occur.
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Posted by ( concernedcit1 ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Very well put rgmlutz. Simple yet right on point.
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Let's do this like I do my children with a sanwich, I let one cut it in half and the other choose their piece
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Posted by ( dlynn336 ) on February 20, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Some clarity and facts here. The County pays 2/3 the cost and owns the building, don't you think its fair that county firefighters be allowed to work in the same arena with our brothers and sisters from the city. Secondly these are not UNION jobs, because they are privately contracted and don't adhere to the FLSA rules and wages. Third, in a catastrophe, Hillsborough County firefighters would be right there in the middle of the event because of long established mutual aid agreements. I think the knowledge of day to day operations would only benefit the attendees if such an event was to ever occur. This issue came about because of a bill that would change the make up of the TSA. This bill give additional votes to the county representives on the basis of demographic population, which equates to amount of money contributed to the Tampa Sports Authority. Who knows maybe this is just a effort on Comissioner Normans part of regaining control of expenditures within Hillsborough County. I didn't know public safety was such a terrible platform to stand on.
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If you all work in the same County it does make sense that you should work closer together, maybe like brother and sister?
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:02 p.m.
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ben seems to have a point about you county guys perhaps in the interest of saving money you quit duplicating services and just start handling the city's calls, it would make my pocketbook alittle fuller
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Posted by ( Major7th ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Norman is being petty.
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Posted by ( tpa703 ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Such overreaction, all the county wants is to be able to allow the opportunity for it's paramedics to work at RJS, equally with the city. I have a feeling that the county would have no problem if the city wanted to work at the state fair, or other events the county is in charge of.
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Posted by ( luv2dig ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It's interesting that this article seems to be more about bashing Jim Nornam but the comments are more focused on whether or not the stadium should be exclusive to city firefighters. If the real point of this article is to make aware the proposal being submitted, shouldn't the Trib present us with facts and figures from both sides rather than intangible reasons like "precedent and performance." Regardless of whether I'm working in the city or living out in the county, I expect the same standard of service if I need to call 911. Why the implication that the city is better? Just as much as the Trib accuses Jim of having his own agenda, the Trib seems to have one of their own. Being an educated and informed taxpayer, I find articles like these very frustrating. How can anyone offer an opinion on who should be allowed to work at the stadium without being presented with some costs and other reasons other than precedent?
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Voulunteer firefighters can't make the cut. Tampa Fire staffs the events with Paramedics, who work under a medical director, and provide advanced life support in the case of a "real" emergency. It can be more than putting a band-aid on a knee or kissing a booboo. Cardiac or respiratory arrest doesn't care if you've got season tickets or sit in a luxury suite.
The fact remains that there are more opportunities (and more frequent ones) already existing in the county that they have CHOSEN not to handle. Sun Dome? Fairgrounds? Amphitheater? Strawberry Festival? These are a few of the venues that offer YEAR-ROUND employment. The last I looked the Bucs and Bulls don't play year-round. You're talking about a handful of events, for a handful of people.
The county boasts 800 members in their "club". There are 35 positions available each Bucs game (even fewer for lesser events). If you were to split the work between the two, you're looking at about 17 people (out of 800) being given a chance to work for about 6 hours, for a couple-dozen weekends throughout football season.
Compare those few opportunities with the year-round events happening at the aforementioned venues the county "gave up" to private companies, and you see it's not about doing the "right thing", or "providing care to citizens", it's a totally sleazy effort to throw a wrench into a well running machine. "Stadium officials say the quality has been first rate", as mentioned in the editorial above.
I love their ability to pick and choose what they feel they may "enjoy" working. Why didn't the Rowdies, Bandits or Mutiny get any "County Love"?
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Posted by ( eei ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
i see this as the hcfr moving in for the kill while tfr is already down and struggling with contract and budget issues. why not attack the city from another angle while they're already vulnerable. maybe it's the beginning of metro-hillsborough fire rescue. just 1 big happy family. why not? miami did it; sarasota did it? strength in numbers right?
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I was told that County Firemedics can work the entire County and that city paramedics can only work the city. Thats why you don't see Tampa P.D. working in Plant City?
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I find it very frustrating as a taxpayer, that you brave souls that risk your lives for us have to even think about working two or three jobs. Your famlies must suffer dearly
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Thank you smg654. This off-duty employment is just that, a second income to supplement the first. If anyone thinks we're sitting out there with funny hats and foam fingers, eating and drinking, they're sadly mistaken.
Who volunteers to stand in the hot Florida sun, for 6-7 straight hours and NOT watch their favorite footbal team (as well as missing all the other games on TV that day) that doesn't need the money? I know I'd rather be watching the Bucs in the comfort of my own home, instead of dealing with intoxicated patrons vomiting beer all over my shoes! The guys (and gals) that work these events NEED THE MONEY. It's not a "Cush-Gig". I don't know what the county thinks they're getting their members into?
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Posted by ( smg654 ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
you professional people go out of your way to make this world a better place, you endur danger, disease, unhealthy enviroments, work long terrible hours, and then have to reduce yourselves to fighting amongst yourselfs for paltry pay. You all deserve much more than this. I pay to much tax money to have the people I count on to fight within
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Posted by ( louiseintampa ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
This isn't about the County firefighters getting a little off-duty work and whats fair, those are simply shallow excuses. This is a power-play plain and simple.
The Hillsborough County firefighters Union train started rolling with a full head of steam when their now Union president took the reins. With more politicians in his pocket than a Halliburton executive, he's brushed off an FDLE investigation and feels he is king of the world. He'll fall sooner or later, they always do.
Hillsborough County firefighters are an IAFF Union and now working to violate IAFF By-Laws pertaining to jurisdiction with a Florida Professional Firefighters District Vice President leading the way.
The FPF should be appalled but they'll stand idly by because nobody wants to get their toes caught on the tracks of this train. I wouldn't be surprised if the IAFF turns a blind eye on the Tampa Firefighters as well. Politics can be an ugly game.
Fraternal brotherhood? Local 2294 should be ashamed.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It doesn't matter who you are or where you live (city or county). WE WILL ANSWER THE CALL!
County and city residents are very fortunate to have highly trained and motivated people watching out for their safety.
This isn't the Hatfield's vs McCoy's. I've got friends that ride those God awful yellow trucks. We have family that work for both entities as well. HCFR's Chief Staff is a virtual Who's Who of past Tampa firefighters.
That's why I know this is just some political garbage some union officers thought up. The firefighters I know on the county side couldn't care less about working at the stadium. That's what makes this whole thing come across shady.
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 20, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
One of you TFR genius' name is scab2294.You must not know 754's scab history. How about stealing from your brothers (for years and years). Except for a small few, your union officers have been criminal at best. The IAFF and the FPF wont do anything because it is not their issue. These are non union jobs by a private organization.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 4:35 p.m.
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Posted by ( louiseintampa ) on February 20, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It couldn't be anymore clear in the IAFF By-Laws regarding work jurisdiction...
Each affiliate shall respect the established work relationship of every other affiliate. For purposes of this Article, the term “established work relationship” shall be deemed to exist as to any work of the kind which the members of an affiliate have customarily performed at a particular work site, whether their employer is a city, county or other governmental agency or private company, and shall include any work performed under a mutual aid agreement that has the approval of the affected affiliates.
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 20, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Funny how you guys now quote bylaws you think benefit you. A few years ago you didn't care about bylaws and jurisdiction when you were banking cash from the county.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I hardly think telephone solicitation, to help raise money for a camp for burned kids (among other things), even relates to what is going on here. You act like that money was used to throw a party or something. We dumped the "phone bank" thing, and have since tried diligently to replace those funds so our charitable work can continue.
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 20, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
What is the huge deal about sharing some off duty work? Is there not enough to go around? Why is there so much dirty slinging going on? I know the RJ has been a hot topic for a while, this didn't pop up over night. I think it should be split. TFR handles Fire Marshal duty at Amphitheater and The Fourm. TGH handle the medical at the Fourm, not the County. The Sundome medical is run by USF, not the County. Let the County guys get a peice of the pie.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 5:42 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Norman said. "It's just a fairness thing. It's food on their tables." referring to county medics.
So if I'm sitting at an All-You-Can-Eat buffet, I have the right to walk over to your table and steal a couple of french fries from your Happy Meal?
"Norman said he first floated the idea about 10 years ago..."
Let's see. That would mean right before Super Bowl XXXV came to town.
Try not to be so obvious gang.
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 20, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Scab, you are really stuck on thinking that this is about a football game, it is not. We want what is due to us, half of the RJS. I am glad that Norman is getting this addressed after 10 years...long over due. And by the way, when we do get into RJS, I will let you work my shift on Super Bowl... I will be having a cook out!
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Posted by ( dalatorr ) on February 20, 2008 at 6:20 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think a lot of people who don't live in the City of Tampa get a little peeved when Tampa whines. We can't get sidewalks or decent trash pickup - you know, the basic stuff. But we pay the same sales tax percentage as you folks in Tampa and we see where so much of the money goes.
I like the idea of a Tampa-Hillsborough group of fire rescue. Why not? Why is segregation better?
Oh, and I never forget that it's the Tampa Tribune, not the Hillsborough County Tribune. So that may explain some of this.
Tampa-Hillsborough Fire Rescue: take the higher standards of the two, the higher pay of the two, and make it one big well run unit. It could work! Unite the clans!
And I never had any doubts that I would receive top treatment from any deputy, cop, paramedic or firefighter I ever needed to respond to my house.
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 20, 2008 at 6:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If I recall correctly...there are representitives from many of the Law Enforcement agencies at the games, all working togather, why should TFR have it all to themselves?
This just shows that when it benifets them, all is good (including the questionable fund raising practices) but lets not actually be fair.
Face it, TFR is no longer the organization they thought they were, and the thought of being out done once again is killing them.
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 20, 2008 at 7:57 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"Fair" you want to mention "fair" you don't see us trying to work events at the Fairgrounds, the Ford Amphitheter, or the Sundome. We are not trying to take anything from you. So I ask you who is being "fair"?
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Posted by ( louiseintampa ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
TPD shares the stadium work because no single law enforcement agency has enough resources to cover it.
You guys keep mentioning the solicitations issue which was way over exaggerated and overblown by the then Hillsborough County firefighters inept Union leadership. How long ago was that?
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Multiple law enforcement agencies are needed to cover these games. TPD couldn't staff the facility alone (who would be left to protect the city?) It's simple math.
Only 35 medics are needed per large-scale event. Tampa Fire sends guys off-duty, so the city isn't left "uncovered".
All of the drugs and equipment are supplied directly from Tampa Fire. I hope the county plans to "bring their own ball" if they wanna play. I don't appreciate it, as a county taxpayer, that the fire department wants to ask for more money (overtime and equipment) so a handful of select individuals can work a handful of football games. Especially, when it is already being handled perfectly well.
Again, county guys keep saying they deserve to work there. What about the Fairgrounds/Amphitheater (surrounded by HCFR fire stations in all directions?) I guess to them it makes sense to work at a facility that is surrounded by City fire stations in all directions?
That's okay. I know the guys that are spewing venom on here have no idea what the big picture is. They think it is okay for one union(?) to try and drive a wedge right through the middle of another. If it were the other way around, we'd be met with the same resistance (don't fool yourself!) The funny thing is, I've worn a county uniform, and the hate towards Tampa Fire was rediculous. They are consumed with it. I have yet to hear City guys sitting around bashing county fire, unless it's in defense of garbage started like this. For years the trend was to get hired by the county, leave and go to the city, become a real firefighter, and then take your knowledge back with you to the county (at the end of your career) as a chief officer. We've been here for over a hundred years, don't get all excited because of your very current "winning streak" rookie department.
Any true fireman, who goes to work and puts it on the line, who shows integrity and finds pride in his profession would know that this is just wrong. I would feel the same way if the opposite were happening. Man up! If you've got things you should be taking care of in your own neighborhood, don't worry about something that has been going on a long time without you.
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Posted by ( JamesM ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:20 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I am a hillsborough county resident and could not be more disappointed by commissioner Norman's efforts. Doesnt he have more important issues that have a bearing on hillsborough county residents? Its nice to know as a county commissioner Norman has so much spare time to chase non-fire department work for our already overpaid county firefighters if they really do start out at $40k+ a year. Thats just ridiculous. It can take hillsborough firefighters ten minutes and longer just to get to my neighborhood and we have a county commissioner worried about them getting an extra couple of dollars working at a football stadium? How about working to get fire station within some reasonable distance of my neighborhood. At least tampa residents can depend on their firefighters showing up within a few minutes when they are needed. Christ, we cant even get working fire hydrants in the county. Wake up Norman!
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:35 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
JamesM....Just how much do you think a firefighter should be paid?
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:54 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If I understand it right, HCFR's union now uses this solicitation phone bank to raise money from taxpayers and contribute to a politicians campaign. So when contract time comes around you can see your hard, donated money spent to give them large raises to their $43,000 starting medic pay.
Talk about sharing, I still haven't seen the county offer anything to share. Let's share the State Fair or Strawberry Festival. You want to talk about fair (no pun intended), let's compromise.
HCFR, your welcome to half of our transports also. And Sulfur Springs, I already have enough of Suit Case City.
Tampa General works the Sundome, the city isn't asking them to share. AMR (private ambulance)has the Amphitheater, the city isn't asking them to share.
From the outside looking in, Tampa Firefighters seem greedy. I understand that. We'll give them half and we expect them to give us half.
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Posted by ( raysfan2294 ) on February 20, 2008 at 8:59 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Wow, for a so-called "brotherhood" there sure are some personal attacks. "Ben" saying that HCFR is "scared of a little fire" and should "go back to sleep in the woods", "scab2294" having this name for one and then saying guys quit the county and work for the city to become "real firefighters". Not that county guys are to go without blame, admittedly there are more than a few anti-city guys in the department. I would ask them the same question I would ask the anti-county guys: WHO CARES WHO YOU WORK FOR?? This foolish petty squabbling and personal attacks are unnecessary.
I saw a comment from a city guy trying to justify by using the pay scales. Don't use that against the county, pay is a union-government deal, go talk to your union president. And please don't forget that as a "new firefighter" we're obligated to be paramedic certified within 2 years or we're shown the door. Is there a similar timeline in the city?
All we want is the opportunity to share in some of the extra work that may be available. You guys want some work at the Fair, awesome. The Strawberry Fest, great. Lets open all the sites up. Yeah, I know, RJS is in the city. But is the city not in the county?
Finally, "JamesM", you said "It can take hillsborough firefighters ten minutes and longer just to get to my neighborhood...At least tampa residents can depend on their firefighters showing up within a few minutes when they are needed". Sir, I would like to know where you live. Last I saw, our response time was under 8 minutes to any part of the county. Keep in mind the vast distances in the Fishawk/Lithis area as well as the Keystone ares near Tarpon Springs. As far as getting more fire stations built, we'll all see how the precious Amendment One works out.
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Posted by ( urwrong ) on February 20, 2008 at 9:04 p.m.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 9:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If your boss told you he was going to cut your hours by half, you'd be upset also. The comment section is no place to settle anything. I'd just like to see some compromise and a little give, not a little take. At a time when our starting firefighters are making $10,000 less the county workers, it's tough to swallow losing even more revenue to union brothers who didn't have the common courtesy to have a meeting and discuss the issue. This was a back door deal that's been in the works for months by the county union to take, and I stress "TAKE" not share in off duty work.
Law enforcement has much more work available to them. Firefighters and Paramedics have little work on the side in their respective field. I understand if a county firefighter wants to work the stadium, but let's talk about it and work on a deal. These closed door meetings on a silent take over are a bit low and childish.
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Seriously, does TFR have a stripper pole hidden at RJS that they take pictures of women stripping while working the games? Do they receive free lightning tickets each time they work at RJS. Or, is TFR able to use sick time and work RJS at the same time? It seems their must be something they do not want anyone else to find out about? What is it?
OH what extra equipment would the county need to purchase at tax payers expense to work at RJS that we do not already have? If you are going to play that card, just think here, you have to purchase and use the same equipment we would at your tax payers expense.
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Posted by ( objective ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:08 p.m.
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Posted by ( objective ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The county only provides medical staffing for The State Fair, The Strawberry Festival, and the annual PGA Seniors Tourney. The USF campus, including the Sun Dome, is in the city’s jurisdiction. The Sun Dome incidentally is run by a private venture, and has no county affiliation. To sit here and write and read this diatribe is pure nonsense. What needs to be done is to sit down like adults and discuss the FACTS. There are plenty of off-duty details for everyone. I am certain with a meeting with all parties, a fair and equitable solution can be had. I would also ask that everyone look at who has brought this subject matter to the public front. The Tampa Tribune has made it a point to make the County the bad guy in all of this by stating in this editorial that Commissioner Norman has drawn first blood. They referenced that the commission agreed two weeks ago that a better relationship with the city was needed to collaborate on ways to save taxpayers money. It was about that same time frame when this very newspaper ran a headline story in the Florida Metro section that the county attempted to consolidate efforts in the parks department, and the city had issues with this because the county did not agree with a certain special interest. So let's stop the buck right here and now. The true disappointing and distressing issue is not Jim Norman, HCFR, or TFR it is the duplicity of the Tampa Tribune. They report an agenda in one edition, and contradict themselves in another. Is it any wonder why subscriptions are down and layoffs are prevalent at the Tribune? Let me be the first to add to their demise by canceling my subscription.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 10:59 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Give and then take! Not take and not give!
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:10 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Objective, let me be the first to say thank you. You made great points all the way around. We can all play in the same sand box and provide the best service that we can...no matter where it is at, including RJS. The most important thing is that we give the best care to anyone in need, no matter where were are at and who it is. Period!
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Posted by ( wakeupandsmellthecoffee ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:13 p.m.
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Posted by ( wakeupandsmellthecoffee ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:23 p.m.
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
First off HCC is a college that employs individuals that are responsible for teaching, not for treating and transporting patrons, citizens, and visitors of the City Of Tampa. It may be off duty but it is still work contracted through Tampa Fire Rescue.
Second I don't know where you get that "there is plenty of part time work to go around." TFR off duty events are consistently filled and personnel are being constantly turned down to work the events because they are already full.
SIMPLE MATH EQUATION
(14 Football games and 1 Monster Truck Jam x 35 personnel=525)+(1 Horse jumping competitionx15=15)+ (A Paintball tournament x 10 personnel=10) = 550 total available positions per year.
Now divide that by 600 TFR personnel. That each TFR member can work 91% of one event at RJS. Now if you add the pool HCFR personnel it means that everyone can work 1/2 of an event. As you can see there isn't "plenty to go around." I guess TFR personnel will have a little more chance of getting the work because we could count HCFR out on the Monster Truck Jam, Paintball, and HorseJumping. We know you won't want to work those and the TFR will be on the hook for staffing the stadium since it is in the City Of Tampa and all.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:44 p.m.
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:50 p.m.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:55 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Last post was for coffee, although you made a good point in the next post. Rest your fingers, they must be tired.
One other point, you may read about us bashing each other, we will stick together when times call for it. Just don't reach into my pocket when I'm trying to make some extra cash.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 20, 2008 at 11:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Is the spell check working or is my computer encrypted!
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:02 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The other question is, did TFR have 36 medics at every single game this year and in the past? Where there 1 or 2 guys not able to make it and you couldn't fill the slot? With 2 Departments doing this, a whole lot better chance of getting it filled. Where is the "Brotherly Love" that I have always heard about? This is a chance for both sides to show it. I love my brother at TFR and TT, I really do we, are all in this together. Face it our deparment have a lot bigger things to get straight, would you agree. This just happens to be a small one
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Posted by ( wakeupandsmellthecoffee ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:08 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Nice you read it all I wasn’t bashing any one I was merely pointing out that the public is who is served and everyone in their rush to make money loses sight of that. If I was a local firefighter I would not be interested in working there no offense to anyone who does. I merely am pointing out you should all work together for the common good of mankind and yourselves. You may think my writing a little corny but the point still remains public servants are the servants of the public we exist for them and it is why we are. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few to borrow a line from star trek... live long and prosper
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:13 a.m.
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
what would you want workoholic? Takeing and giving nothing...what would you want? And by the way, sorry for the typos, first time on a laptop.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:32 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
What still amazes me is, people actually pay so much money to sit in the sun, rain and humidity. This may be a blessing in disguise. I believe in karma if you want so bad you can have it. You can have the 100 section next to the pirate ship.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:37 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Give and take, still haven't heard about giving yet.
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Posted by ( Ben ) on February 21, 2008 at 1:04 a.m.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 1:18 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Amen, brother Ben...Peace, Love, and Harmony. Oh yes, I have a dream, a dream of equality.
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Posted by ( objective ) on February 21, 2008 at 7 a.m.
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 21, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
FOR BEN:
THE DVP YOU ARE WHINING ABOUT IS REPRESENTING HIS MEMBERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE. IF TTF OR PCF WANTED IN THEY WOULD BE WELCOMED AS WELL.
I SEE YOU ARE TRYING TO USE THE FPF AS COVER, YOU GUYS MUST BE BACK IN THIS YEAR. TFR PREACHING BROTHERHOOD IS A JOKE TO MOST FIREFIGHTERS IN THIS STATE.
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 21, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.
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Posted by ( allgonebad ) on February 21, 2008 at 11:09 a.m.
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Posted by ( Max460 ) on February 21, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
This article appears to be shining a negative light on J. Norman. However everyone knows the city government including fire rescue participates in shady business practices. Not to mention the problems they are having right now between the union and existing city management. TFR can't even get along with other agencies under the same umbrella (TPD). Just ask most TPD officers and they will tell you of the poor relations they have with TFR. We are not asking to give us the sand box, just share it a little.
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 21, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
If I had to deal with this mentality, I would freeze your salary too. I feel for you Pam, having to deal with this kind of rationality. Sorry guys, it is not all about you anymore. "Wake up amd smell the coffee".
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Posted by ( floridaboy ) on February 21, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ben- you keep talking about TFR not trying to work the the Fair or Strawberry Festival. It is because you have no common intrest in it. If you would listen to what is being said you might have realized it and saved your self some embarrsment. The county OWNS RJS, and PAYS 2/3 of the expenses for it. Do you have documentation for the city owning the fair or strawberry grounds. And for you all to question the brotherhood of local 2294 is just hairbrained. Our 2294 leaders are the best and department could wish for and our fraternal brothers and sister are admirable as are those of Tampa Fire. The people make up HCFR are comparable to those of TFR. I understand their are a few bad apples in every group, and the opinions posted by some do not represent those of the entire department. So to those of you that want to question HCFR call volume, or sleeping in our stations in the country, or calling us scabs and questioning our morals, you have way more issues than RJS. You are the annoying one that everyone within your own department talks about.
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:06 p.m.
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 21, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Hey Larry,
You have already shot yourself in the foot attacking Pam. Are you aiming at your other foot with Jim?
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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Posted by ( KoKo ) on February 21, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I find the TFR attitude to be ungrateful and quite frankly disappointing. As the addage goes, "How soon we forget."
Since everyone want's to talk about facts, here are a few for you to think about. If it wasn't for the County's attitude of "Spread the Wealth", TFR would not have a nice, new Heavy Rescue sitting in Sta. 1. Nor would they be able to have the funding to build a new multi-million dollar fire boat. And lets not forget the new State of the Art ARFF station at the airport, courtesy of the Hillsborough COUNTY Aviation Board.
It is the opinion of this writer, that the County has always been willing to share, but I do not think we can say the same for the city.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 21, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Hey gang. I've been running calls all morning and haven't had a chance to read up on this thread much.
First of all, I go to work in the city, every 3rd day, knowing my wife and children sleep under the protection of HCFR's bravest (I've got a firehouse about a mile away.) That's the truth.
This should have been an in-house, "domestic dispute". I hope the public sees that. We are a very prideful bunch of men and women, and this only benefits the citizens as each department trys to "one-up" the other by doing the job better and better.
I just can't get past the fact that the county would push So HARD for SO FEW. That would be admirable given a different set of cicumstances. A handful of Tampa Firefighters rely on a handful of events at this venue as added income. RayJay is a seasonal facility.
I don't understand why the county has not tried to work venues in their area first? Some of them providing year-round opportunities? That's what I don't get (more work = more $$$ for more people, right?)
If you county guys knew who I was you'd be surprised. I get along great with you guys. It's hard to go on the defensive against guys and gals I admire for doing what I do, but I will. I'm protecting my Brothers and Sisters here. No offense, but you guys are more like 2nd cousins.
In closing, I hate you all and be safe out there...
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Most of the money you talk of is Federal money, given by FEMA for homeland security. The Heavy Rescue was FEMA money and the Aircraft Rescue Fire Fighting is owned by the HCA and FAA. The fireboat is owned by the Port Authority. Hum, all in the city limits!
Ungrateful you say, Tampa established Task Force 3 (FEMA Search and Rescue Team) and gave it to the county. The county was larger and could handled the responsibility better, so we thought. The Tampa Teams don't have the proper equipment that is issued by the county, county firefighters do though. The city provides manpower and canines and the county doesn't provide the equipment. The county also controls the money.
And to top it off, they painted everything green with county logos. Nothing neutral like blue to include Hills., Tampa, and St. Pete. We're very grateful for what the county has done for us, that's why we should try to work better together.
I'm back on my sharing box again.
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 21, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Actually...St Pete Fire started the Task Force, I was then, and still am a member of it, been there since day one.
And since you brought it up, the "Task Force" has done nothing but grow, prosper, and gain recognition since HCFR became the custodial agent.
However, that is a whole different topic, one which has no bearing here.
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 21, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I forgot to mention, TFR has been given dollars to purchase PPE and equipment for it's Task Force members, and it's team leaders have dropped the ball.
Please, do not speak of a subject, unless you have first hand knowledge. To do so makes you look like a fool.
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"We're very grateful for what the county has done for us, that's why we should try to work better together." So I was only partially wrong or wrong about the whole thing?
I see how stories can be spun in ones favor.
I apologize!
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Posted by ( calosguevara ) on February 21, 2008 at 4:47 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
We all deserve employment opportunities. There is no reason why a 2/3 county financed stadium should give an exclusive contract to Tampa Firefighters. Hillsborough County Firefighters have a right to share in the employment opportunities offered by the Sports Authority.
How can Norman be accused of political favoritism, if he's trying to open opportunities for all?
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
So your saying a stockholder should be entitled to work anytime in a business they own stock in, or do they need 2/3 the majority. I own lots of stock, maybe I should go to Wal-Mart and test your theory. What do you think they'll say?
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 21, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
all this quiveling over a handful of medical standby jobs. geez, you woulda thunk we were goin after the fire watch at the performin arts center or the convention center or the ice palace or the ....
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Posted by ( KL11 ) on February 21, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
No "workoholic", I am sure wal-mart will allow you to go work for them. Maybe even one outside city limits will allow you to be part of their team. I know the one in Brandon is severly in need of a cart wrangler, go get you some.
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Posted by ( gmckinney626 ) on February 21, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Thanks to Commissioner Norman first and foremost. Secondly, I work for HCFR and the SunDome (because I applied). You too, TFR brothers and sisters, can come seek gainful employment at the SunDome (but you have to apply). I have HCFR brothers and sisters working at the Forum (because they went and applied). I'm sure that (if you applied) you are eligible to work at any of the hospitals who employ paramedics in the ER. I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently of the other venues mentioned. Primarily, this is due to my lack of interest in participation with those stated. If there is so little work at RJS, why is it such a source of contention with you. I'm sure that the personnel of TFR are educated enough to find employment outside of one private company. Why are you not complaining over jobs at Home Depot? Several brothers work there. In reference to Floridaboys' post earlier, I have to wonder if there IS something you are hiding and don't want others to know about. And at the expense of my (in my opinion) educated reply being overshadowed by criticism, since you want to bash the County firefighters, we don't fight fire from the sidewalk! Now go be a "real fireman".
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Posted by ( Workoholic ) on February 21, 2008 at 10:57 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ye haw, you see my point though. What if the city called mutual aid to the county health clinic. Engine arrives, stabilizes the patient who is with a nurse anyway, and the county can come transport. What else is there that's paid with county dollars, since the county is the only revenue generator and the city doesn't contribute anything.
All poor excuses for someone to sneak in the back door and take a job from someone who is doing it good and throw the mirrors and add a little smoke to try and justify your selfish cause.
The city has 1 million daytime residents and 333,000 evening residents. All generating revenue and taxes that the digs their hands into. Keep the 2/3 excuse to yourself and stop copying from earlier posts.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 22, 2008 at 9:08 a.m.
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Posted by ( KL11 ) on February 22, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Well since the city has exclusivley worked RJS for "30 years" , maybe HCFR should work it exclusivley for 30 years, and then after 30 years bring it back to the bargaining table. Just give it up TFR, you have NO legitimate arguement in why HCFR should not be part of RJS. I understand TFR is afraid of change, but in this case it will defintley be for the better. What time on gameday do we start, and where should we park?
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Posted by ( KL11 ) on February 22, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
To: Scabbie
Think out side of box brother. You say HCFR union is taking jobs awat from TFR 794, and its union vs union. Last time I ckecked we all belonged to IAFF union. I will let you finish the rest in your brain, if possible. I hope you are a rookie, and not a captain for TFR.
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Posted by ( ScaB2294 ) on February 22, 2008 at 2:14 p.m.
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Posted by ( KL11 ) on February 22, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
"please stop poking at me" are you kidding....look at your user name...scab2294! that is ridiculous, and i am offended that someone would stoop so low. what exactly are you trying to say. If only you knew what 2294 does for its members. Every person in position their is the best possible match for the position. 2294 has the dream team of locals. I understand where you all would be jealous, but like you said, lets stick to the subject of this thread
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Posted by ( BKH ) on February 22, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
OKAY GLEN I'LL STOP POKIN YA.
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Posted by ( RatPatrol ) on February 22, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
This is getting good. Comical even. Just wait till the play is made for TIA via the HCAA.
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Posted by ( beerwulf ) on February 24, 2008 at 11:12 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
It may be time for Tampa and points west to secede from Hillsborough County.
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Posted by ( tfr_de ) on February 26, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
This is all just a step for the county to move into the city. It’s the opportunity for them to finally become firefighters. I love the “sidewalk firefighting” comment. The county can’t fight fire from the sidewalk because there are no sidewalks in the trailer parks. When we do fight fire from the sidewalk, it’s because were fighting fire in the county putting out what they couldn’t handle. (Carlton Arms and Barcelona to name just two).
You guys from the county that want to learn how to fight fire, follow the link.
http://www.tampagov.net/appl_personnel_job_openings/job_detail.asp?posting_id=1412
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Posted by ( MB529 ) on February 27, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The City has screwed up more fires than the cavemen!
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