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House OKs Guns-At-Work Bill
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Published: March 27, 2008
TALLAHASSEE - A bill allowing some gun owners to keep their guns locked in their car while at work easily passed the Florida House on Wednesday.
The proposed law, approved with no debate in a 72-42 vote, was sent to the Senate for consideration, where a companion bill is pending. The House measure would allow those with a concealed-weapons permit to have guns in their car while working.
The Senate measure, which passed a Senate committee Tuesday, does not limit "guns at work" to people with a concealed-weapons permit and would allow any employee or customer to keep a legally owned gun locked inside his or her car.
The House bill represents a compromise the Senate is expected to agree to.
Supporters of both bills say people have a constitutional right to carry firearms and should be able to keep guns in their cars for protection. But businesses contend the bill will lead to increased liabilities and pits the property rights of business owners against the constitutional right to bear firearms.
The House bill's sponsor, Rep. Greg Evers, R-Baker, said it is designed to prevent businesses from limiting the rights of gun owners.
The bill "allows folks to actually carry their gun without being afraid of their employer firing them because they have a gun in their vehicle."
But Rep. Jack Seiler, D-Wilton Manors, said the bill will create difficulties for employers, who will be forced to craft rules for workers who have a concealed-weapons permit and workers who don't.
"It has problems with definitions. It has problems with enforcement," Seiler said. "You're creating two classes of employees and you're creating confusion for employers."
Seiler said the bill was so poorly written that he felt there was no need to debate the central issue of gun rights versus property rights, though he thinks the Second Amendment doesn't trump the rights of property owners.
"You have property rights and you need to figure those out in conjunction with the Second Amendment," Seiler said.
The National Rifle Association has been lobbying Florida legislators for a guns at work bill for the past three years.
Only five other states have laws prohibiting employers from keeping workers from having a gun in their car: Oklahoma, Alaska, Kentucky, Kansas and Minnesota. In Oklahoma, the law never took effect because it has been tied up in the courts.
Reporter Russell Ray can be reached at rray@tampatrib.com or (850) 222-8382.
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( sanders ) on March 27, 2008 at 12:40 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I guess next there will be a bill to allow persons to take there gun into the workplace.
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Posted by ( mrradioactive ) on March 27, 2008 at 2:06 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
An armed society is a polite society.
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Posted by ( Nightbiker ) on March 27, 2008 at 2:18 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
It makes no sense to think that my gun, locked in my vehicle, poses a threat to an employer or anyone on his property -providing they do not try to attack me when I get to my vehicle.
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Posted by ( Lakota55 ) on March 27, 2008 at 6:25 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The love the misnomer ' Guns At Work' that the Gun Control people got the media to label it. Its not Guns 'AT' Work, its gun in your locked up car.Much like the "Castle Doctrine" law passed a couple of years ago that the some media tried to label "Shoot First'Law.
Remember back in '87 when the Concealed weapons law went into effect, the anti gun media tried to say the streets of Florida will become like the "Wild West" where gun fights between law abiding citizens ( the ones legally allowed to carry) will become commonplace.Well it didnt happen.
BTW doesnt this law state that ONLY Concealed Weapons Permit holders would be the ones allowed to keep a weapon locked up in their cars?
My my, another fact left out by some anti-gun media outlets.
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Posted by ( 2ndAmendment ) on March 27, 2008 at 6:28 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
A well armed society IS a polite society indeed! but with rights come responsibilities.. the employees should suffer negative consequences if they're vehicles containing the weapon(s) is found to be unlocked.. and I would lobby to allow the concealed carry licensed employees be allowed to conceal carry while on the job (as long as their work clothing provides concealment).
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Posted by ( welshiesdad ) on March 27, 2008 at 6:35 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I go to work at 4 a.m. and sometimes strange people are up and about...I like my friend Mr. Glock to be along for the ride.
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Posted by ( Lakota55 ) on March 27, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
'2nd Amendment' I disagree that CWP ( Concealed Weapon Permit)holders should be allowed to carry on their person while on the job.The law is for CWP holders to keep their weapons in their car for their own protection driving to and from work.
I respect an Employers right to not allow guns inside the work place but an Employees private auto is a different subject.
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Posted by ( RobKay ) on March 27, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I would like to hear from local police officials, what they think of this bill. They after all are the ones who are going to have to deal with these "armed citizens" at traffic stops, domestic disturbances, and robberies where they may well have to assume everyone will be armed. I still do not understand how we as a country can think we are heading in the right direction when countries like the UK have progressed to the point where even the police do not have to carry guns anymore. Doesn't that sound safer than what we are proposing?
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Posted by ( spinj6m ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Yee-haw people. Yee-haw.
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Posted by ( anymouse ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
yo robkay: the cops enforce "laws" the states that permitted carry is allowed PERIOD, i would love to watch you de-escalate a gun toting felon with a time out now one two three lay down your weapon not florida is a stand your ground state too bad thugs you have met your match
1
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Posted by ( scbrownsr ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
RobKay, I agree with you that it can be created where we wouldnt need guns. But that would depend on the people. Im not sure we as a people are ready for that. Heck, we can even get along with each other. So for now I wouldnt mind wearing guns on our hips as citizens. Then after a few shootings, maybe we can have peace. Ha!
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Posted by ( 1madvet ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I have a great idea how to save law makers from wasting time on dumb laws like this. Take your gun to work, school, play, anywhere you want. Just don't tell anyone you have it. I have CWP but have been carrying all my adult life. No one knew but me.
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Posted by ( scbrownsr ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I agree. If it's concealed, then no one should know you have it.
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Posted by ( baccala4u ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Did you know more people die from Dr. visits then Accidental Gun Shots?
Number of physicians in the US 700,000
Accidental deaths caused by doctors each year 120,000
Accidental deaths per physician per year 0.171
Number of gun owners in the US 80,000,000
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) 1,500
Accidental deaths per gun owner per year 0.0000188
Physician Death Rate / Gun Owner Death Rate 9000
Therefore, Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
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Posted by ( Landsturm ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Kinda on the fence on this one. I've been a gun enthusiast my whole life and a CWP holder for almost 18 Yrs. I also do work for some high profile businesses like say banks, and chose to stop "carrying" a few years ago because I felt the risk was too great for harm if you know what I mean. Sure I may get caught in a robbery one day, but would offer to help carry out the money other than see someone shot or cause someone to be shot by accident. I'm also aware some thugs will shoot you anyway cause their psycho and on drugs...It's starting to get pretty rough out there these days and I may start carrying again. But if an Employer doesn't want guns on his private property isn't that their right too?...Beware , I do carry a Big A$$ BallPeen Hammer on the front seat of my work truck!
Mann, Next time my boss or coworkers git outta line Thats it...BLAM!!!BLAM!!!BLAM!!!...Especially if some punk pisses in my luchbox!!!
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Posted by ( 3bullies ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
sanders, are you mentally deficient? The people you have to worry about having a gun to harm you, are mostly the ones that don't have a job anyway (not real jobs, unless armed robbery is your job). Not us poor slobs that migrate to the office every day to make the living and support the same family that we carry our firearms to protect. Lets face it, if someone is gonna go off and shoot a place up, do they care if their employer allows weapons on the property? No! But telling me I can not have my weapon with me in my auto to protect myself and family from would be attackers is rediculous. What are we supposed to do, leave it in a paper bag on the side of the road till we get out of work and then pick it back up and hope that someone hasn't found it. The weapons are there in the parking lot already, this just eliminates the ability for your empolyer to fire you if somehow they find out about it. Which if you are a responsible gun owner they will never do anyway. Pull your heads out of the sand people, you are trying everything you can do to give away your rights.
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Posted by ( Lakota55 ) on March 27, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Since 1987 when the CWP law went into effect, 1,000,000 Floridians applied and have gotten permits and during that time only 1/10th thousandth of 1% have had those permits revoked because of a criminal activity.
1/10th thousandth of ONE PERCENT!
People have no real reason to fear CWP holders keeping a gun locked up in their car, but criminals do.
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Posted by ( Ariel ) on March 27, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The NRA is still trying to turn Florida into Vietraq. They must look at Basra these days and drool with envy.
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Posted by ( Landsturm ) on March 27, 2008 at 9:19 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( BW272 ) on March 27, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
RobKay
You have a valid point. However due to the lack of guns in the UK they have developed a huge knife culture in place of the guns. That is why the police over there are wearing puncture proof vests instead of bullet proof. Guns and knives don't kill people. People kill people. Take away the guns and knives and they'll use whatever they can get their hands on. Unfortunately for the law abiding people of this country we have to worry about self protection due to a hand full of idiots that intend on doing us harm.
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Posted by ( leopard1 ) on March 27, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
RobKay, you're wrong. The police in England do carry guns, because they found the bad guys carry them. ......... It's not illegal to carry a gun in your car. Your car can't be searched by your employer or some retailer to check if you have a weapon. No law enforcement agency is going to help an employer enforce their "policies"......... ... If you have a weapon in your car driving to and from work, for the purpose of self-protection,to some employer who says you "can't have it in your personal vehicle" (which they have no say so over anyway) what are you supposed to do with it? ..... Heck, some employers don't want you to have mouthwash in your desk because it contains alcohol!
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Posted by ( Repsolman ) on March 27, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The house version of this bill makes no sense as it limits this to just people with CWPs. Florida law 790.25 states that it is legal for anyone 18 and over to carry concealed in their private conveyance a weapon. So if the house bill wins instead of the senate bill, a non-CWP holder can legally carry in his car a concealed weapon but as soon as he arrives at a place of employment must suddenly have a CWP to be legal.
This makes no sense. I have a CWP and review the statutes quite often to be sure I know what I can legally do. In my case, passing this law makes no difference but to a non CWP holder it doesn't do anything for him.
Where I work you are allowed to have all the rifles and shotguns locked in your car that you want but you are not allowed to have hand guns. Yeah..I know...that makes no sense either.
Here is the link to the Florida law I cited in case you are interested:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC25.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0790->Section%2025#0790.25
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Posted by ( lornoborno ) on March 27, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Well, I guess this means if you’re going to go postal – do it in the parking lot (less clean-up in the building)
With all these nuts waving their 2ond Amendment around – I think I better go buy a gun.
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Posted by ( MamaMagic ) on March 27, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
For such a controversial subject, the folks postings about this artcle were very polite and civilized. That doesn't happen on most of the postings I read.
Congratulations! You have all behaved like adults. I enjoyed learning of your views.
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