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Commuter Rail Still Pursued
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Published: May 11, 2008
TAMPA - In the days after the collapse of the state's $649 million deal with CSX Transportation, both supporters and opponents said the same thing: The goal of creating a commuter rail system in Florida is still alive.
"This didn't kill commuter rail. It killed a badly negotiated contract," said state Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, who organized the opposition to the CSX deal in the legislative session that ended May 2. "This gives us an opportunity to craft something better."
State Rep. Dennis Ross, R-Lakeland, who worked with Dockery to defeat the CSX deal, said there are other ways to bring commuter rail to Florida. One of them is to work with Amtrak.
Federal law gives Amtrak the right to use existing freight tracks. It runs trains on CSX lines to Tampa, Lakeland, Orlando and Miami.
"We've talked to them," Ross said. "They do commuter rail and intercity rail" across the country. The Florida service would need to be more frequent and reliable, but those problems could be solved, Ross said.
The state had planned to spend $649 million to buy 61 miles of CSX railroad tracks in the Orlando area for commuter rail. About half of the money would have been used to help CSX expand its freight operations statewide.
Officials who supported the deal haven't said whether they're willing to work with Dockery and others to fashion something new. In fact, one of them, U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, was so angry about the collapse of the deal, he said Florida was at risk of losing federal funding for future transportation projects.
But Monday, he and other Orlando leaders gathered to announce that the Central Florida commuter rail project would go forward. State Department of Transportation spokesman Dick Kane confirmed the state's support for the project.
"This is Central Florida's number one transportation priority, and we will work with them on developing projects based on their priorities," he said.
Also Monday, CSX Chief Executive Michael Ward sent a letter to Gov. Charlie Crist, Mica and U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Jacksonville, saying the company would honor its commitment to sell its tracks.
CSX is a Fortune 500 company based in Jacksonville.
Ward also said the company still planned to expand its freight operations into a new hub in Winter Haven. But for now, the state's financial help for that project is on hold.
"Currently, CSX would not get any funding for infrastructure improvements without an agreement," Kane said, though plans to spend about $200 million for five rail overpasses on state roads will continue.
Expenditures Already Approved
During this session, lawmakers sharply questioned the cost of the CSX deal, but they had already approved the expenditures in previous sessions. They didn't, however, realize what they were approving, they said, because DOT and Central Florida lawmakers pushing the deal kept them in the dark.
The 2005 legislation that set aside money for the track purchase was a growth management bill. It never mentioned CSX. And in the years that followed, the specific expenditures were parceled out in DOT work programs that were hundreds of pages long.
But one piece was left for the Legislature's approval this year. CSX planned to keep running freight trains on the tracks it was negotiating to sell for commuter rail, and it wanted the state to approve a "no-fault" liability agreement. It would make each party, the state and CSX, responsible only for damages to its own property or people.
That meant, for instance, that if CSX were at fault in a freight-commuter train collision, the state would be liable for all passenger harm. If people beyond the tracks were injured, in a derailment, for instance, the state and CSX would split the cost of the damages, regardless of who was at fault.
The state would spend at least $2 million per year for liability insurance. Lawsuit payouts would be limited to $200,000 per accident, but the Legislature could approve higher amounts in specific cases.
CFO Cautions About Future
The state trial lawyers association opposed extending the state's protection from lawsuits to a for-profit company. In the last week of the session, state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink added her warnings.
Commuter rail is important, she wrote to legislative leaders, but "taxpayers should not assume an undue amount of liability as a condition of a proposed public-private partnership."
When the state negotiates commuter rail in the future, she wrote that, "we should appoint a team of experienced negotiators to advocate on behalf of Florida taxpayers."
One of Dockery's main concerns with the CSX deal was that the company's expansion into Polk County would have increased freight train traffic through downtown Lakeland. The residents never had a voice in the negotiations.
"It's time to say to DOT and CSX: 'OK, guys. If you really want to go forward, let's sit down to negotiate. Let's include the trial lawyers, the railroad unions, Plant City, Lakeland, Ocala. ... Let's really negotiate in good faith,'" Dockery said.
"And if we truly want commuter rail, then why not have it between Hillsborough and Volusia County? And why not look at Amtrak?"
She and Ross met with Amtrak representatives in March, when the rail company met with several Florida officials, including Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio.
"I think that Amtrak is a good option for increased travel between cities," Iorio said last week. "The Amtrak officials indicated that it works very well in other states, although it takes a great deal of state subsidy."
Amtrak trains going to New York and Miami stop at Tampa's Union Station twice a day.
Amtrak officials came to Florida because they regularly visit the major cities in which they operate, but they're also trying to establish more state and local partnerships for commuter and intercity routes, said Todd Stinnis, director of government affairs.
About 20 local and regional government agencies have deals with Amtrak for commuter or intercity rail.
Amtrak is working with Florida officials on the Central Florida commuter rail project to share stations in Kissimmee, Winter Park, Orlando and DeLand. Amtrak's Tampa-to-New York route runs over the same stretch of CSX tracks that the state planned to buy for the Central Florida system. But the Central Florida commuter system would have more stations and more frequent stops.
Neither Stinnis nor Drew Galloway, transportation planning director, would give details on what kind of partnership they could set up with the state. But Galloway said, "We think Florida has great promise as having the right characteristics to run a very useful corridor service."
He said, "With investments ... it could be very competitive."
Reporter Lindsay Peterson can be reached at (813) 259-7834 or lpeterson@tampatrib.com.
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Reader Comments
Posted by ( davidkc ) on May 11, 2008 at 6:10 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
For once Florida legislators did something right. The CSX deal was a bad one for Florida taxpayers. Why should we assume a for-profit company's legal liabilities and why should we pay for tracks that the company is still going to use? Taxpayers are sick of all the corporate welfare.
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Posted by ( peak ) on May 11, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
The commuter rail issue will NEVER go away because Central Florida needs mass transit. The sooner we implement a plan the better.
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Posted by ( Old_FL_Crab ) on May 11, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Ol Crab agrees with both posts above, with reservations. Yes, we need to approve a plan, but NOT THAT plan. Sooner is not always better. A 'plan' negotiated in the dark amoung the 'good ole boys' is SELDOM what we need. The AMTRAC thing sounds fair, CSX was going to run freight on 'Floridas rails.' Let AMTRAC run on CSX rails as happens in the rest of the country.
chuga, chuga, chuga, ......
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Posted by ( Jabarten ) on May 11, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
It's probably going to have to be something completely made from scratch, rather than using existing track unfortunately. Something like a Maglev (megnetic levitation) type system, or bullet trains like what they have in Europe and Japan. Going speeds of over 150 mph, you can go great distances, with some capable going over 300 mph, you can go from say Tampa to Miami in under an hour; or Tampa to Atlanta in 2 hours. Could you imagine the sheer amount of traffic that would be cut out of I-75 and the Airports in Atlanta and Miami? Especially with cars spaced in 15 min intervals?
Anyways, from where I live in Pinnelas Co., I am miles from the nearest rail line, and further towards the gulf, there are places that are I'd bet are at least 6-8 miles from an existing rail line.
To have one work for the entire area is going to probably require its own lines....just my views....
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Posted by ( jsr ) on May 11, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Eventually we need a bullet/high speed train.
However, for now, commuter rail will have to do.
I think Amtrak is a good idea for Polk County and it is cost effective, unlike some other ideas.
Hopefully, it can run from Tampa to wherever people want it on the A line.
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Posted by ( RonG ) on May 11, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by ( ZiggyK ) on May 11, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
They seriously need a commuter in that runs parallel with Rt 4 from Orlando to Tampa with stops in Polk County. That would ease the congestion on Rt 4 due to all the commuters. It is only going to get worse over the next 5-10 years too unless the housing slump continues that long which wouldn't be any good for Florida communities either.
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Posted by ( AlanB ) on May 11, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Actually I'm rather amused at how little understanding of the realities the Florida legislature has.
First, the liability issue. This is how things have been done since day one in RR history. If a BNSF engine derails on CSX tracks, BNSF pays to fix that engine no matter whose fault it is.
Amtrak operates under the same rules. When CSX derailed the Auto Train a few years ago in Florida, Amtrak paid. Not CSX. And let's not forget that the Florida legislature has already approved the very same thing for Tri-Rail in southern Florida. Yes, Tri-Rail operates under those rules. If CSX crashes into a Tri-Rail train, CSX pays to fix its train. Tri-Rail with State help pays to fix its train and handle any passenger law suits that arise from the crash.
Every state with commuter rail has had to do this and neither CSX nor any other freight company is going to allow the rules to be changed. And the State of Florida has no standing to force a change in the rules, since RR's fall under Federal jurisdiction, not state jurisdiction. The State of Florida can’t even use Eminent Domain laws to take over the Orlando tracks if CSX decides not to sell or allow the use of their tracks for commuter service.
This entire thing is all about the lawyers trying to change the rules such that they can pocket more money. This isn’t about doing anything good for the residents of Florida.
Turning to the idea that the residents of Lakeland didn’t get any voice in the matter of possibly more trains running through their city, guess what? They aren’t entitled to a voice. If CSX decides tomorrow that they want to run more trains down the line through Lakeland, even without the commuter deal, CSX can run more trains down that line and there is absolutely nothing that the City of Lakeland or its residents can do about it. Sorry to be blunt, but that is the reality.
And since it looks like CSX is going to go ahead with building the new facility anyhow without the deal with the state, it’s a pretty safe bet that more trains will be rolling through Lakeland a few years from now.
Finally, while Federal law does give Amtrak the right to run trains, it doesn’t prevent CSX from forcing Amtrak to pay for improvements to the tracks to handle those extra trains. Guess whose going to pay for those track improvements? Not Amtrak. It will be the State of Florida. And remember what I said above that Amtrak has the same liability arrangements with CSX as the deal wanted between Florida and CSX? Well guess whose going to be paying for that increased liability that Amtrak will have to undertake if they run the service? I can promise you it won’t be Amtrak and it won’t be CSX.
I’m sorry, but the State of Florida legislature just shot itself in the foot, all to please a few lobbyists and failed to do what it should have done, provide the best for its constituents.
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Posted by ( bolador ) on May 11, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
We need to develop a rail system, but I agree with some it has to be similar to a Mag-Lev, and it has to be for the most part above ground so it doesn't interfere with vehicular traffic at intersections. Tough but it can be done.
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Posted by ( AlanB ) on May 11, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Please, no Mag-Lev. Germany has already given up on the technology in part because of the major costs and in part because of a few failures on the line they did build, including a fatal accident.
Floridians are already upset with the proposed costs of the commuter rail, that small amount of money wouldn't even allow Florida to build a Mag-Lev system from Winter Springs to Sanford before the money ran out.
It's definately not the answer.
If you want above ground, then look no further than the proven technology down at Disney World. Build a monorail to connect JAX-Orlando-Tampa. It will still cost more than the commuter rail project, but it will be far far cheaper than any Mag-Lev and take far less time to build and make operational.
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Posted by ( magnus ) on May 12, 2008 at 1:10 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
"the liability issue. This is how things have been done since day one in RR history"
This is a good reason the Federal government should permanently eminent domain the rail system as the only time rail really worked well was in world war two when the feds nationalized the rail system for the war effort and then foolishly gave it back and it been totally dysfunctional since
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Posted by ( WinterHaven ) on May 12, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Amtrak is an option to the proposed boondoggle of a mess FDOT has allowed us to stumble into. FDOT should be held accountable and most of those folks should be standing in the unemployment line.
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Posted by ( ghh ) on May 13, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Dear Magnus: You do not know what you are talking about. The government did NOT nationalize the railroad during WW2. They did nationalize the railroads during WW1 and it was a disaster according to everything I have read about it. In WW2 the railroads were left in the hands of their management and managed to haul more freight and more passengers with less equipment than they did in WW1. Why did they have less equipment in hand at the start of WW2? Because it was just after the depression and railroad traffic had been way down for several years.
This whole thing is being raised by the trial lawyers because they see a source of money being curtailed. And then there is Lakeland who seems to think the world was created for their benefit.
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